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WINDCHEETAH KARL SPARENBURG

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Topic: WINDCHEETAH KARL SPARENBURG
Posted By: mark aldridge
Subject: WINDCHEETAH KARL SPARENBURG
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:16pm
Does anyone have alternative contact details for Karl Sparenburg. I am having great difficulty contacting him regarding progress on a Windcheetah build. I have sent numerous e-mails and left many telephone messages with no response.
Thanks



Replies:
Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:17pm
Have you called his mobile Mark?

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Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:37pm
Yes and left numerous messages. He is proving to be very elusive.


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:38pm
That's strange!!
Try via Facebook maybe in case there is a problem with his mobile? https://www.facebook.com/Windcheetah-326656140720604/" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/Windcheetah-326656140720604/


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Posted By: lohezm
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:44pm
Karl has been in and out last few weeks with family issues so I know he's got a lot on his plate. 

Best bet is drop him an email at karl@windcheetah.co.uk and he'll pick it up when he can - If I speak to him I'll give him a prod for you – I know he has been at the workshop though so hopefully yours will be underway - don't worry it'll be well worth the wait :)

Marc


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:46pm
Thumbs Up
Oh yes - Well worth the wait and hope to see you on it on the track next year Mark!

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Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:56pm
I have been running a Windcheetah for the last twelve years or so and still have a cheesy grin on my face. Unfortunately it has got a little podgy over the years to cope with life. Mudguards, racks, panniers etc have resulted in a superlative do anything machine but it has lost it's purity. Hence the new order. I realise Karl has had a few problems  of various kinds but the lack of communication is a bit unsettling when money is involved. Anyone who can give him a prod would have my thanks.
Mark


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 3:59pm
I've left a message on his mobile - Karl is a really good bloke so I'm certain all will be ok. 

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Posted By: lohezm
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 4:01pm
Prodding-stick at the ready :)

Don't worry Mark he's not forgotten you - I've got a 320 currently and nearly lost my hair one a new one - the newer Speedys are a whole new level... 

M


Posted By: Karl
Date Posted: 24 November 2016 at 4:29pm
Mark

Phoned you this morning and left a message, just emailed you about 30mins ago.

Kindest Regards
Karl

Normal service should be resumed from now on. All emails to others are in a queue and I will get through them as soon as possible.



Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 25 November 2016 at 4:41pm
Communication is now restored. The multimedia approach was needed.
Thanks Karl


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 25 November 2016 at 5:07pm
Thumbs Up

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Posted By: Tango14
Date Posted: 27 November 2016 at 8:46am
met Karl yesterday and he seemed a real good guy


Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 07 July 2017 at 2:46pm
This is an old post, but thought I'd piggyback on it, as my issue is the same.  I am waiting on delivery of a Windcheetah, going on 2 months past the delivery date.  No word from Karl since mid-March.  No replies to E-mails or phone calls.  Any advice?  Counsul?


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 07 July 2017 at 2:50pm
Hi Russ,
 
I understand that Karl is tied up with his other job and Katie is currently handling Windcheetah orders and enquiries.
Have you called the mobile number?
 


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Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 07 July 2017 at 3:12pm
Maybe try emailing Katie as well - mailto:katie@windcheetah.co.uk" rel="nofollow - katie@windcheetah.co.uk
 
They are fantastic machines and I'm sure it will be worth the wait when you get it... Big smile


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Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 07 July 2017 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

Hi Russ,
 
I understand that Karl is tied up with his other job and Katie is currently handling Windcheetah orders and enquiries.
Have you called the mobile number?
 

It really is bad though keeping somebody waiting way past a delivery date without communication, whether he's busy or not, how long does an email take to write?


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 08 July 2017 at 7:09am
I've left messages for Karl and Katie - Hopefully they will be in touch very soon. 

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Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 08 July 2017 at 2:23pm
Thank you Alan for your response and your intervention.  Yes, I've called his mobile a number of times, leaving messages.  When you get absolutely no response to calls and E-mails it doesn't take long for your mind to go dark on you, especially when an ocean separates you.  This response from you restores my faith that things will be OK.  I've sent E-mails to both Karl and the AVD address, which is how I've communicated with Katie in the past, but I will try her personal E-mail as well, thanks.

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Russ Anton


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 08 July 2017 at 2:41pm
I haven't had a reply yet - I really hope they are ok. Very nice people. 

Has anybody else heard from Karl or Katie recently?
I'll see Marc who looks after their website at the New Milton Pedal Car Grand Prix tomorrow so I'll check with him to see if he's heard anything. 




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Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 11 July 2017 at 10:37am
Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

I haven't had a reply yet - I really hope they are ok. Very nice people. 

Has anybody else heard from Karl or Katie recently?
I'll see Marc who looks after their website at the New Milton Pedal Car Grand Prix tomorrow so I'll check with him to see if he's heard anything.

Hi Alan

Did you get a chance to speak to Marc on Sunday?  Did he have any Windcheetah info that you can share?


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 11 July 2017 at 10:50am
Marc is also awaiting a response. 
Sorry, I've had no response - getting a liitle concerned now to be honest. :( 


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Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 13 July 2017 at 3:59pm
Hi All,
Just to let you know Karl has been in touch today and he has been dealing with some personal issues which have created a bit of a backlog.
 
He will be in touch with everybody shortly and things are getting back to normal so hopefully those of you waiting for a Windcheetah will be enjoying blasting around on them soon!
 
 


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Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 13 July 2017 at 5:17pm
Hello all.
Karl has just sent me a long e-mail that fully explains the reasons behind the lack of recent communication.
Sometimes life takes over and bike building has to take second place.
It is fully understandable and has just heightened my sense of anticipation.
It looks like I will be collecting my FRO in the next week or so and be on the road for most of the summer.
Thanks for all the Karl prodding from all concerned.
Mark
 


Posted By: trsnrtr
Date Posted: 13 July 2017 at 7:02pm
My Hypersport order will be 6 months old this week. Original estimate was 12-16 weeks. I'm taking a lot of verbal abuse from my wife for ordering so I hope orders get filled soon.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 13 July 2017 at 8:48pm
That sort of delay was usually known as the framebuilder calendar when ordering a custom upright, back in the day.


Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 15 July 2017 at 10:19pm
Ditto here!  Looking forward to my Windcheetah soon!  Thank you all for helping to keep me grounded and positive.  You were correct!

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Russ Anton


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 15 July 2017 at 10:40pm
Thumbs Up

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Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 25 August 2017 at 6:29pm
So,  I'm wondering did Mark get his FRO in "a week or so"?  I backed off for a month.  Sent Karl an E-mail this past Monday.  No response.  No further word from Karl since his E-mail to all in July.  Any thoughts?  

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Russ Anton


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 26 August 2017 at 11:14am
I haven't heard any more from Karl - I know he was having a few personal issues which he's hopefully in the process of sorting out. 



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Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 26 August 2017 at 4:29pm
Hello all.
 
I am still waiting for my Windcheetah.
 
Karl e-mailed me a couple weeks ago to say that it was ready. 
 
Since then I have been trying to contact him to confirm that the build is indeed 100% to my requested specification (photographs would reassure me) and to arrange a suitable collection date.
 
I have had no response but given that it is the holiday season I am giving him a couple of weeks to respond.
 
Luckily I have other recumbents to amuse me.
 
Optimistic Mark


Posted By: trsnrtr
Date Posted: 27 August 2017 at 1:19am
Originally posted by RussAnton RussAnton wrote:

So,  I'm wondering did Mark get his FRO in "a week or so"?  I backed off for a month.  Sent Karl an E-mail this past Monday.  No response.  No further word from Karl since his E-mail to all in July.  Any thoughts?  

I didn't even get that email.  My Hypersport order was placed in January.  No contact since other than to confirm the funds were received.


Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 6:47pm
Mark,  Did you receive your FRO "in the next week" as you expected?  I backed off for a month or so after receiving Karl's explanation of the situation.  Started E-mailing him again late in August since I didn't hear anything further from him since his explanation E-mail in July.  Receiving no response from either him or Katie.  Any thoughts or insight?  Russ

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Russ Anton


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 9:24pm
I haven't heard anything further... Really hope he is ok.

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Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 11 September 2017 at 3:51pm
Hello all
 
I have been in contact with Karl by telephone and e-mail a few times over the last couple of weeks and am going up to collect my FRO early next week.
 
It looks great in the photographs he has sent and only needs some final thinking about light and flag mounting points. This is usually not a problem but as soon as you mount a fairing and tail box the traditional fixing points are not available.
 
Keep the faith brothers, Windcheetahs are worth the wait.
 
Mark


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 11 September 2017 at 3:55pm
WooHoo!!


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Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 11 September 2017 at 9:28pm
Yeah, good news Mark!  Smile  Can mine be far behind?

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Russ Anton


Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 26 September 2017 at 3:15pm
Mark, "early next week" has come and gone.  It is now early in the week after that.  Did you get your FRO?

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Russ Anton


Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 05 October 2017 at 8:06pm
Perhaps because you all are "over there", without an ocean and a different country separating you from Karl, you all can be more philosophical and trusting. I believe I'm done.  Following is my last E-mail (unanswered) to Karl.  Best of luck to those of you still counting on getting something for your money.  Popeye the Sailor: “That’s all I can stands, cuz I can’t stands no more”. 


July 2016 my bank transferred you full payment for a Hypersport.  We agreed to a delivery in May 2017. 


March 2017 I checked in, and you replied “all is on track for a May delivery”.  


From April through mid-July of 2017, I received no response to E-mails or phone messages, no Hypersport, and no explanation for why not.  


Mid-July you explained your communication breakdown. 


Hearing nothing after that, the end of August I began weekly inquiries into the status of my trike.  As of today I’ve received no response from either you or your wife. 


October 7th I’m attending Cycle-Con. If I don’t hear from you by then I’ll be looking for a new ride.  While there I’ll seek out folks you’ve has been collaborating with in the States, and tell them my story.  To demand payment in full, deliver nothing when promised, with no explanation, while, at the same time ending all communication, is no way to run a business. 


It’s been implied that I’m ignorant of the ways of bespoke bike wizardry; spare me.  AVD presents itself as a business, with a slick, modern web page, leaning heavily on the legendary past of the Windcheetah, while focusing on new technology, with delivery timeframes, ordering and contact info, etc.  In reality, it seems little to nothing is being made, the phone number is your cell phone, which has never been answered when I call.  Not one message left has been returned.  I received pre-order responses from the E-mail address listed, and only one single response immediately after I placed my order. Nothing else since, for over a year of trying. It’s a shiny front with no substance behind it.  


You won’t communicate, I have no reason to believe I’m getting a trike, and if I am getting one, no idea of when I’ll get it. This is driving me nuts, and is not healthy for me. I need to let go and move on.  


If I go to Cycle-Con, not having heard from you I will pursue this no further.   If I haven’t received a Windcheetah by late winter I’ll contact my bike shop and have them configure and order me the trike I chose at Cycle-Con.


No more dealing direct with a builder.


The next time I visit my son in Germany, if I haven’t received a Hypersport from you, I’ll once again do a side trip to Manchester, and you will find me on your doorstep.  I’d just like to look you in the eyes.


This was to be the “gift of a lifetime” from my wife.  You have no idea how much worse all of this is with me because of that. 


Russell Anton



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Russ Anton


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 05 October 2017 at 10:00pm
Very sorry to read all this... Cry

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Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 05 October 2017 at 10:10pm
@Mark Aldridge - Please can you confirm whether you've received your FRO?
Is Karl ok?
 


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Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 06 October 2017 at 4:19pm
Hello all.
 
Yes I did collect my FRO.
 
Fify miles riding and it is now off the road with an extensive snagging list.
 
I am now waiting on Karl to sort everything out.
 
Ho Hum, if I did not have this to occupy my time I would probably be bored.
 
Mark


Posted By: Mark McNeill
Date Posted: 08 October 2017 at 6:09pm

Hi all, and I wish I could do my first post [a big wave to anybody who remembers me from the happy days of u.r.c. years ago...] on a happier topic, but I've had broadly the same experience as Russ.


I ordered and paid for a Hypersport about a year and a quarter ago; I didn't take the 10-to-12-week delivery schedule entirely seriously, and wasn't either surprised or worried when it silently slipped.  (Apart from anything else, I have fond memories of Bob Dixon's occasionally intermittent communication skills, and wondered if they'd formed part of the AVD inheritance. Wink)Karl eventually emailed to say he'd been on what we in my trade used to call a foreigner, doing freelance work elsewhere, and I thought that was understandable enough.


After the next delay, he said that family issues had come up: that was understandable as well, I sympathised and left him alone to do what he needed to do: there are times when family comes before work, I've been there myself, and I didn't want to pressure him at a difficult time.


That was his last communication, seven months ago.  I gave him a couple of months: since then I've emailed, texted, and finally sent recorded-delivery letters (these at least I know he's received): no response at all.  It's difficult to sustain sympathy in the face of complete silence (particularly if he can manage to communicate, and even deliver trikes, with other people); in my last letter, with real regret, I cancelled the order and asked for my money back.  That was two months ago: no reply.  




Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 11 October 2017 at 11:14pm
The Windcheetah website appears to have been down for the last couple of days. Cry

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Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 8:33am
Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

The Windcheetah website appears to have been down for the last couple of days. Cry

I tried http://www.windcheetah.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.windcheetah.co.uk  today (Thursday).  It goes to a new Wordpress web site that hasn't had any information entered into it yet.

The http://www.advancedvelodesign.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.advancedvelodesign.com  web site isn't loading, in the same way as http://www.windcheetah.co.uk wasn't on Tuesday and Wednesday.

http://www.sparenberg.co.uk/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.sparenberg.co.uk/index.html  is still working but the information on there is a bit out of date.

The https://twitter.com/AdvancedVelo" rel="nofollow - Advanced Velo Design Twitter page hasn't had any tweets for some months and neither has there been any posts on the https://www.facebook.com/Windcheetah-326656140720604/" rel="nofollow - Windcheetah Facebook page.


Posted By: zoxed
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 12:05pm
Looks like the domain registration of sparenberg.co.uk expired 06-Oct-2017 :-(
Hopefully just a glitch.


Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by zoxed zoxed wrote:

Looks like the domain registration of sparenberg.co.uk expired 06-Oct-2017 :-(
Hopefully just a glitch.

Sparenberg.co.uk was renewed yesterday (Oct 11) but Nominet UK WHOIS says,
"Name servers:
        ns1.domainhasexpired.com
        ns2.domainhasexpired.com"


Posted By: zoxed
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 3:56pm
http://www.windcheetah.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.windcheetah.co.uk is back :-)


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 4:03pm
Thumbs Up

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Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 3:09am
Hi, I'm new here.  Some of you may know me as a regular on BentriderOnline.  

So, I'm happy to hear Mark Aldridge did actually collect his FRO.  (although the "snagging list" doesn't sound very encouraging)  I am also awaiting an elusive FRO and hoping to hear some kind of good news that I'll ever really see it.  

 My order was placed with Karl in April, 2016.  The FRO with blue castings that Karl displayed at SPEZI six months ago was allegedly mine.  Last I heard from Karl was in mid-July, when he said it was being packed up for shipment.  Nothing since, despite a couple emails from me requesting updates.

This is so disappointing, but I don't want to see others go down this same long winding path.  Do you guys have any recommendations?

Robin


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 5:16am
Sorry to hear this. 
No, I'm afraid I've had no further contact at all from Karl so no idea what's going on. :( 


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Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 10:14am
I can see that somebody has logged into this forum as recently as 30th October using Karl's account so it may well be worth sending a private message on here!


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Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 11:45am
Robin,

Russ here, also from the States.  Rather than go into the long story that's documented on this forum, just look around the forum a bit and you'll see you are not alone.  I ordered a Hypersport July 2016, delivery was supposed to be May 2017.  In March Karl told me it was on schedule for a May delivery.  He has stopped all communication.  It seems, I'm afraid, that he's not with it.  I've started down the legal path.  Sent a formal request for a refund which has not been responded to.  Just sent him a 5 day extension to my refund request, and then I'll begin legal action.  I've composed something on my story for Bentrider Online and will post it in  a bit.  I've been very hesitant to go down this ugly road, mostly because it's an acceptance of the reality of no Windcheetah, and out thousands.  I mentioned my plight to Brian Ball at Cycle-Con.


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Russ Anton


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 11:49am
I've left a message on Karl's answerphone this morning asking him to get in touch. 

Hope this all gets sorted out. 



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Posted By: trsnrtr
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 12:52pm
Russ, please keep us informed.  My HS was ordered last January and would tolerate the long build time if there was occasional correspondence and/or updates.

Dennis T

Peoria, IL, USA


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 02 November 2017 at 12:56pm
can't somebody in the Manchester/ Chorley area pop around to see him and advise him that things might soon be getting a whole lot worse than they already are?


Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 03 November 2017 at 12:34pm
Good afternoon all.
Just to update you on my progress with Karl regarding rectifying the faults and missing parts on my FRO. 
 
No surprise, I have heard nothing.
 
When I contacted him previously I took the belt and braces approach and fired off numerous letters to him and Katie at both his work and home address to inform him that he had one month to either rectify the situation or refund the total purchase price as the machine "was not fit for purpose". It is the first legal step in seeking redress and if ignored will lead to an official issue of a claim by my local court. If I do not hear from him by middle of next week I will proceed and he then starts to rack up costs against him.
 
Just as a matter of interest does anyone know of any satisfied customers out there or is Karl just leaving a trail of aggrieved people in his wake.
 
Interesting times.
 
Mark


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 03 November 2017 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by mark aldridge mark aldridge wrote:

 
Just as a matter of interest does anyone know of any satisfied customers
 
 
Yes - All my dealings with Karl (and Katie) have been very positive - He was very helpful when we were restoring my early Windcheetah, supplying me with lots of bits and pieces, and has always been great at various BHPC races and other events, so I'm really sad and surprised to see the way things are developing.
 
Cry
 
 


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Posted By: Mark McNeill
Date Posted: 03 November 2017 at 1:06pm
As it happens I've just come back myself from posting a last letter before taking action.  I don't want to damage his business unnecessarily (though I suspect it's too late for that), and I'll try one more backdoor attempt before starting proceedings.


Posted By: D.TEK
Date Posted: 03 November 2017 at 1:35pm
One of my customers took a trip to visit the Old Mill workshop site on Wednesday .
No contact was made with Karl S as it was all locked up .
Another furniture restorer's unit was wide open ....but nobody could be found to ask questions !
Although a worker in a neighbouring unit passed a comment ,when asked , that he had not seen anyone during daylight hours for several months .
My messages via Email and private via BHPC and finally a telephone call today to
KS have not produced any response .
Great pity ............
Because I expressed interest in an Email sent on the 16th October
About possibly buying the Windcheetah company !
Regards KD 



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D.TEK HPVS purveyors of recumbent trikes and cycles


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 03 November 2017 at 1:44pm
This is freely available in the public domain from Company Check:

Mr Karl Sparenberg holds 1 appointment at 1 active company, has resigned from 0 companies and held 0 appointments at 0 dissolved companies. KARL began their first appointment at the age of 41. Their longest current appointment spans 5 years, 6 months and 24 days at ADVANCED VELO DESIGN LTD

The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where KARL holds a current appointment equals £2.3k, a combined total current assets value of £2.3k with a total current liabilities of £19.1k and a total current net worth of £-19.7k. Roles associated with Mr Karl Sparenberg within the recorded businesses include: Director


Not sure how recent this is but the company was insolvent at that/this point and is a Ltd company!   


EDIT - those figures were from 2016, next figures not due until next year




Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 12:30pm
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showpost.php?p=1502335&postcount=1" rel="nofollow - Patrick from ICE Trikes has just posted on the Bentrider Online forum , offering a substantial discount against the price of an ICE VTX to the folk whose Windcheetahs are stuck in limbo.

A fantastic gesture IMHO. Smile

"Hi RPAnton,

We are very sorry to read about your plight with AVD. We cannot do anything to get your money back or anything like that, we are not in any way affiliated with AVD or Karl but we felt moved to do something for you and the other people who have been let down in this way by a member of the recumbent industry.

We would like to offer you and others in your situation a new ICE VTX at a significantly reduced price. If you are interested please send us over an email to  mailto:sales@icetrikes.co" rel="nofollow - sales@icetrikes.co  and we will work out the details. 

Thanks, Patrick."

The first page of RPAnton's thread on Bentrider Online is linked below 
" rel="nofollow - http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?p=1502070


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 1:15pm
Fair play to him...

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Posted By: D.TEK
Date Posted: 15 November 2017 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by Mark McNeill Mark McNeill wrote:

As it happens I've just come back myself from posting a last letter before taking action.  I don't want to damage his business unnecessarily (though I suspect it's too late for that), and I'll try one more backdoor attempt before starting proceedings.

Hi Mark ..........
Did you confirm pre-order all the key facts such as
your Height + Weight + X seam or and jean leg length.

ICE have made a very kind offer of a discounted brand new VTX to all affected WC customers .

You might have good reason to believe that the ICE VTX does not offer you the loading capacity that you require ??
But do you have the confirmed loading and  max capacity for your selected Windcheetah ?

I have  sold Speedy Windcheetahs when new in the 90's and later just *used versions .
* Bob Dixon decided he did not require dealers shortly after he took over 
Thinking factory direct was the way forward ??

I'am sure as an ICE UK Premier dealer
That ICE Falmouth would consider offering a more suitable trike such as the Sprint series 
if contacted to discuss options available .

Hope that helps you ..........Kevin D 




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D.TEK HPVS purveyors of recumbent trikes and cycles


Posted By: RussAnton
Date Posted: 17 November 2017 at 9:14pm
Just to let you all know, after receiving the offer of a VTX from Patrick at ICE, I followed up with him.  He has been coordinating with my bike shop, The Hostel Shoppe in Wisconsin.  I just received a very generous quote on a VTX from ICE through my bike shop.  I have accepted the offer gratefully, and immediately (before anyone could have second thoughts Smile).  ICE is fantastic!  The Hostel Shoppe is as well!  I am happy.

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Russ Anton


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 17 November 2017 at 9:43pm
Nice one Smile Thumbs Up


Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 17 November 2017 at 9:56pm
That's great Russ.  I'm pleased for you. Smile

I hope that eventually you get some sort of recompense from Windcheetah too.


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 17 November 2017 at 10:00pm
Excellent!

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Posted By: Mark McNeill
Date Posted: 19 November 2017 at 11:29pm
Thanks -- I've been in contact with Patrick at ICE, and I'll pursue it, though work and housework have been taking up all my time in the past few days.


Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 21 November 2017 at 8:44am
The generous offer from ICE is very commendable and it's nice to see some of those waiting in vain for a new Windcheetah Have found a more rewarding outcome. I already have a Vortex+/VTX+ which is an excellent trike and I have experienced first hand the speedy and amazing service ICE provides to everyone. Unfortunately, it's still the Windcheetah FRO that is dangling out there, allegedly ready to be delivered which I'm wondering about.

It seems we have gotten off track in getting to the bottom of the Karl and impending demise of AVD Windcheetah debacle. Has anyone either made more attempts to find out what this is all about or proceeded down the legal action path? I would think Karl is either contemplating getting back into the game, (if even possible) or selling the assets to an interested party such as D.Tek. Does anyone have any insight on how this could potentially play out?



Posted By: D.TEK
Date Posted: 21 November 2017 at 10:08am
I would suggest you contact Russell Anton who is also based in the USA .
He has inquired into the British legal system .
The key question is .......can a foreign citizen take civil action via our courts ?

The FRO that you have paid for ?? 
Have you seen any pictures albeit frame + seat + or kit of parts 

I'am aware of a number of local "drive-pasts " and visits to the works
All rather hit and miss and so far has produced no positive sightings or signs of activity . 
No goods can be  recovered anyway unless a debtor makes a personal visit or appoints an agent .


As for acquiring any business ??
Unless its formally offered for sale not much can happen .
The vendors need to be willing to communicate throughout the sales process .
Many sales packages include or ask for a sum for the "Goodwill" .
Goodwill is an intangible asset representing non-physical items that add to a company’s value but cannot be easily identified or valued
So do forum members believe any goodwill remains in this case ?



-------------
D.TEK HPVS purveyors of recumbent trikes and cycles


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 21 November 2017 at 10:17am

I've not been able to contact Karl at all. I've just left another answerphone message.

I can see that he (or somebody using his account) last logged into this forum on the 8th November.
 
 


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Posted By: RoyMacdonald
Date Posted: 21 November 2017 at 4:56pm
Have the BHPC been able to recover their library from Karl?

Roy 


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 21 November 2017 at 7:04pm
Not as far as I know... Somebody local to him has been trying to make contact.

-------------



Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 22 November 2017 at 1:11am
Originally posted by D.TEK D.TEK wrote:


I would suggest you contact Russell Anton who is also based in the USA .
He has inquired into the British legal system .
The key question is .......can a foreign citizen take civil action via our courts ?

The FRO that you have paid for ?? 
Have you seen any pictures albeit frame + seat + or kit of parts 

I'am aware of a number of local "drive-pasts " and visits to the works
All rather hit and miss and so far has produced no positive sightings or signs of activity . 
No goods can be  recovered anyway unless a debtor makes a personal visit or appoints an agent .


As for acquiring any business ??
Unless its formally offered for sale not much can happen .
The vendors need to be willing to communicate throughout the sales process .
Many sales packages include or ask for a sum for the "Goodwill" .
Goodwill is an intangible asset representing non-physical items that add to a company’s value but cannot be easily identified or valued
So do forum members believe any goodwill remains in this case ?


Thank you for your explanations. There are photos of my completed FRO on Karl's Facebook. My trike was there at SPEZI displayed behind Karl and Bryan Ball. Bryan sent me other photos of the full trike that he took at my request. Karl had sent me earlier photos of the build process and blue castings.

It is so strange that absolutely nobody knows of Karl's or Katie's whereabouts. He had told me previously that he cannot use email when doing his other job out of the country.

I should have time to check in with Russell and those in our same dilemma later next week. The mysterious saga continues......

Robin


Posted By: leupoldclan
Date Posted: 22 November 2017 at 9:22am
Hello,

i from Ginkgo and we have delivering all wheelssets to Karl. I have order as private person a FRO-frameset and have the compelete payment in march 2017. This was a lightweight-project SUB9.5. Karl have his stand on Spezi 17 side by side to our stand. On Spezi i ask Karl about my framework and he told me that this is ready in 4-6 weeks. Now i write weekly Karl and Katie, but no answering. From Karl are comming no orders about wheelsets (rear-hubs we have get from Karl for the future). I think that he is insolvent and all customer, whcih have make a payment in advance lost their money.

Bye



Jörg


Posted By: RoyMacdonald
Date Posted: 22 November 2017 at 6:44pm
Like your Ginko web site. Great products I've been trying to find for some time. 

Roy


Posted By: icde
Date Posted: 22 November 2017 at 9:31pm
To add another name to the saga, I am another customer of Karl with an unfulfilled order. I was about to initiate action through small claims court, but having followed this thread have held back.
It would appear, based on current information, that such an action would be a waste of time and money. However, wonder if any formal action we could take acting together?
Private responses might be appropriate in the circumstances?


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 22 November 2017 at 11:26pm
Could it be that the FRO that was at SPEZI is the one that went to Mark and is in need of some fettling?
 
 


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Posted By: trsnrtr
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 1:30am
The one at Spezi had blue joints as specified by Dragonfly.  Pretty sure that hers is the only one that was supposed to have blue joints.


Posted By: leupoldclan
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 6:30am
It is a nice idea to collect all unfulfilled orders? How much persons are affected?

Bye






Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 7:51am
There is potentially a legal aspect to all this, if the director(s) of the company have taken money out of a business to be used on non-business affairs particularly when the money is prepaid for goods or services then this is a criminal act, not a civil act.  https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/" rel="nofollow - https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 8:40am
https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-procurement-fraud" rel="nofollow - https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-procurement-fraud


Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 3:30pm
Hello Alan
 
My FRO has the Kermit Green castings the same as the original one on the website (although given the web of tales being woven they might be one and the same).
 
Does anyone know the disabled customer that the first FRO was supposedly built for.
 
I know of another FRO with blue castings (the one on Karl's Twitter site). This was delivered to a friend of mine very early this year (with multiple faults).
 
By my reckoning there are maybe:
 
Two green casting FRO machines, mine and the original on the website.
 
Two blue casting FRO machines, my friend's and the one shown at Spezi.
 
It looks as though there are two FRO and two Hypersport machines paid for but not delivered.
 
Doing the sums, 4 x £5000 plus £2000 to rectify faults on delivered machines. Total £22000 owed. From what I saw at Abbey Mills there might (and that is a very big might) be £5000 of assets. I suspect though that I am viewing it as a recumbent owner and a bailiff might be scratching around to realise £1000 of resaleable assets.
 
Legally, when does total business incompetence spill over into fraud. I suspect it would be very difficult to prove and given the lack of AVD assets a bit of a futile endevour.
 
It might be worth trying to contact Karl through the consultant water engineer world. I work in a very similar and overlapping environment and it is a very small world.
 
Who knows how many other customers are in the same boat. As far as I know the story is only on the BHPC, Cycling UK (ex CTC) and Bentrider websites. Does anyone know if the news has broken on any of the foreign language sites.
 
Finally I add my congratulations to the way ICE have responded. I was very impressed by my ride on a VTX a few years ago and was tempted to buy. It was only the news of the FRO that prevented me.
 
Mark
 
 


Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by trsnrtr trsnrtr wrote:

The one at Spezi had blue joints as specified by Dragonfly.  Pretty sure that hers is the only one that was supposed to have blue joints.

Karl made two FROs with blue joints. He sent me photos of the first one finished and said mine would be almost identical. If Mark's FRO has blue castings, then that is probably the one. Karl emailed me just before SPEZI stating he was taking my FRO to the show and I should receive it in early May. (I should have asked which year he was referring to!)

There was a 3rd set of FRO castings in Karl's photo that were green. Mark told me of another person in the UK who got a FRO before him. It had even more significant issues than Mark's FRO. (The green castings?)

Is everyone thoroughly confused now? This is like a logic problem--but it's not very logical!


Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 3:45pm
Ah, thank you, Mark, for clarifying who ordered each color!


Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by mark aldridge mark aldridge wrote:

Hello Alan
 
My FRO has the Kermit Green castings the same as the original one on the website (although given the web of tales being woven they might be one and the same).
 
Does anyone know the disabled customer that the first FRO was supposedly built for.
<SNIP>
 Mark

I don't know the lady but http://www.attwater.com/blog/2017/01/24/manufacturer-of-the-legendary-windcheetah-trike/" rel="nofollow - here is a link to a story about her and Karl , on the web site of the company who made the carbon tubes.
Green castings.


Posted By: leupoldclan
Date Posted: 24 November 2017 at 11:23am
Windcheetah website is offline!!!


Posted By: trsnrtr
Date Posted: 24 November 2017 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by mark aldridge mark aldridge wrote:


 
It looks as though there are two FRO and two Hypersport machines paid for but not delivered.
 
 

I have a HS on order and Dragonfly has an FRO.  Don't know what model that RPAnton has on order and there is at least one more HS on order in the States.


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 6:44am
Originally posted by mark aldridge mark aldridge wrote:

Hello Alan
 

 
Legally, when does total business incompetence spill over into fraud. I suspect it would be very difficult to prove and given the lack of AVD assets a bit of a futile endevour.
 
 
 

Seriously?

It isn't for an individual, or a group to decide that, that is why we have police and the CPS, all people have to do is report it on the Action Fraud website.

I really can't understand peoples attitudes, a person has stolen your money!

It doesn't matter how they've done it, whether it's a nice comfy armchair fraud or out of your wallet at knife point!

If it were me I would certainly be taking legal action via the courts AND reporting it as fraud, then let the wheels of the relevant processes start turning, whether something comes of it is neither here nor there.


Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Yanto Yanto wrote:


Seriously?

It isn't for an individual, or a group to decide that, that is why we have police and the CPS, all people have to do is report it on the Action Fraud website.

I really can't understand peoples attitudes, a person has stolen your money!

It doesn't matter how they've done it, whether it's a nice comfy armchair fraud or out of your wallet at knife point!

If it were me I would certainly be taking legal action via the courts AND reporting it as fraud, then let the wheels of the relevant processes start turning, whether something comes of it is neither here nor there.

Yanto, I agree with you. I've been traveling for the last couple weeks, but will have time starting next week to work on this. I would like to compile a database of each person's orders, amount paid, dates, etc.. (Perhaps one of the others wants to do head this up, or already has)

I came across the Action Fraud website earlier this month and we do need to report what's going on. Those affected should feel free to send me a private message and we can be in touch via email.

Robin



Posted By: D.TEK
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 1:54pm
The Action Fraud site will not allow group reports 
However each individual can make a report .
Then the site will link these together and consider if a valid case exists .
At which point the findings from this agency are sent to the Met Police 
They will review and pass further down the line to local force for further investigation.
It is a free service but unlikely to recover any funds in the short term
Long term recovery of missings funds or products ?
I think most forum members can take a considered view on the odds of that happening .
Yanto has made very good points about taking action without further delays .
Hope that assists ...........Kevin D 
 


-------------
D.TEK HPVS purveyors of recumbent trikes and cycles


Posted By: mark aldridge
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 4:01pm
Hello all.
 
The Action Fraud website is very user friendly but it requires a lot of information. All of it is just standard questions, who, when, what, how much etc.
 
It took me less than twenty minutes and I am a computer illiterate luddite.
 
I know I personally am only out of pocket a few hundred pounds but by linking all the cases together the police can build up a complete picture and are in a stronger position to proceed with formal charges.
 
It also allows for customers abroad to register and it is in all our interests to do so.
 
Thanks for the very forcefully put advice Yanto, it gave me the gee up I needed.
 
Mark


Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by leupoldclan leupoldclan wrote:

Windcheetah website is offline!!!

http://www.windcheetah.co.uk  has been suspended, not just offline.

I recall that in mid 2016, Karl Sparenberg told me that the Windcheetah web site had been created for him by a chap who wanted some parts for his own machine.  Karl said that the chap also maintained the site for him.
I wonder if those Windcheetah spare parts were ever delivered? Wink


Posted By: Beano
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 8:59pm
I'm by no means advocating 'direct action' as it were, but if I was out of pocket by £4-£5k and wanted answers about what's going on but could not get hold of Karl via phone or e-mail I'd be annoyed.

Companies house is a good start....


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Gromit Gromit wrote:


I recall that in mid 2016, Karl Sparenberg told me that the Windcheetah web site had been created for him by a chap who wanted some parts for his own machine.  Karl said that the chap also maintained the site for him.
I wonder if those Windcheetah spare parts were ever delivered? Wink
 
Marc Lohez (lohezm on this forum) has been looking after the website for AVD. My understanding was that he was expecting a new machine in return for the considerable amount of work he has done but sadly I don't think that has happened.
 
 
 
 
 


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Posted By: Gromit
Date Posted: 25 November 2017 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Gromit Gromit wrote:

I recall that in mid 2016, Karl Sparenberg told me that the Windcheetah web site had been created for him by a chap who wanted some parts for his own machine.  Karl said that the chap also maintained the site for him.
I wonder if those Windcheetah spare parts were ever delivered? Wink

Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

Marc Lohez (lohezm on this forum) has been looking after the website for AVD. My understanding was that he was expecting a new machine in return for the considerable amount of work he has done but sadly I don't think that has happened.

Thanks for your explanation Alan Smile  That makes more sense.  I probably didn't fully comprehend what Karl was saying?


Posted By: trsnrtr
Date Posted: 28 November 2017 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by D.TEK D.TEK wrote:

The Action Fraud site will not allow group reports 
However each individual can make a report .
Then the site will link these together and consider if a valid case exists .
At which point the findings from this agency are sent to the Met Police 
They will review and pass further down the line to local force for further investigation.
It is a free service but unlikely to recover any funds in the short term
Long term recovery of missings funds or products ?
I think most forum members can take a considered view on the odds of that happening .
Yanto has made very good points about taking action without further delays .
Hope that assists ...........Kevin D 
 

My report has been filed.


Posted By: Dragonfly
Date Posted: 28 November 2017 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by trsnrtr trsnrtr wrote:

My report has been filed.
My report was filed on the ActionFraud site yesterday.  

One thing that still puzzles me is what the word on the street is in Karl's town of Abbey Village.  It's been reported that nobody has seen him, but who's paying the rent on his space in Abbey Mill?  Somebody brought up the question of reporting this matter to the local authorities or newspaper.  Clearly, this is what the police are for and we are highly unlikely to get any updates from ActionFraud, but one wants to know more.

I wonder how many times Karl "resold" my FRO to other unsuspecting victims, collected the money and never delivered.  It seemed odd when Karl emailed me in April that he was taking my FRO to SPEZI, without at all asking me if I minded.  (After all, a year had already passed since placing the order.)

Katie is the other mysterious player in this drama.  She emailed invoices and handled payments, but never got responded to customer inquiries for updates.  She is an accomplice to Karl.  Doesn't anyone in the BHPC know Karl on a more personal basis or live nearby?


Posted By: leupoldclan
Date Posted: 28 November 2017 at 9:06pm
Have Mike Burrows more informations?

We Ginkgo guys have in the past a good bussiness with Karl, but after the Spezi i don't understand Karl. The said he have enormous headaches. mmhhh.. I'm really confuse and dissapointed about the no-reaction of Katie and Karl.
I think my money is lost. l'm now richer for the experience.

Bye





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