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advice on springing a python trike ? long post !!! |
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GeoffBird
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 1:57pm |
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Spring preload: The damper will have something to limit its extension (or sometimes on cars there is a separate droop stop). Preload compresses the spring against this stop. The purpose of this is to limit the amount of damper travel required, as the static deflection (the amount the spring compresses when the weight of rider and trike is placed on it) will be reduced.
Imagine a spring/damper requires 1" of travel to absorb a 1g bump. This will mean you will need a spring with the capacity to absorb at least twice that (2"), because the static deflection will be equal to the travel required for a 1g hit. This assumes the spring starts at 'free length', in other words, its uncompressed length. If we were to apply 1/2" of preload to this spring then the static deflection will only be 1/2" and the total damper travel required will only be 1 1/2", not 2". Preload becomes more necessary the softer the suspension. A saloon car will have a suspension frequency of about 1.5 Hz, so will need about 4 1/2" of travel at the wheel to absorb a 1g bump, so accommodating an equal amount of droop travel becomes impractical. Most cars require spring compressors to fit or remove the springs for this reason. In the case of your first picture, you can give the spring preload simply by tightening the nut and bolt.
Edited by GeoffBird - 23 October 2017 at 2:09pm |
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GeoffBird
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 2:03pm |
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Here is a graph I made for and article on suspension I wrote which might be useful:
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GeoffBird
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Posted: 23 October 2017 at 2:14pm |
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The reason I have advised using a higher spring frequency for your trike than for a saloon car is that it is more difficult to have a system that doesn't absorb your pedal power if the suspension is very soft. 2.5 Hz should give you a noticeable suspension effect while avoiding these problems. A traditional racing car would have suspension frequencies in the 2-2.5 Hz range. Modern race cars use harder suspension because they have to resist aerodynamic downforce.
Mountain bikes have hard springs and lots of travel because they are designed to absorb 2g (or more) bumps. I find MTB suspension fairly useless on the road as it is too stiff. Edited by GeoffBird - 23 October 2017 at 2:17pm |
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stormbird
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Posted: 24 October 2017 at 6:05pm |
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Geoff
So looking at your figures and my scrap pile I have :-
So I am thinking Option 1 :- ![]() Looks as though if I select 3.5" I can use a 650 lb spring for normal riding and have the option of a 750lb for the camping load if needed ? Need to weight existing trike next and get a feel for the weighs involved ? The central bolt shown is 12mm 6" long is that over kill ? can you buy threaded rod that is 8.8 hardness ? all for now Paul |
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GeoffBird
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 4:09pm |
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Hi Paul, Threaded rod is called studding. Try a search. The load on the bolt is purely from the preload. If you know the amount of preload and the spring weight, you can work out the load.
You don.t have any damping with this arrangement. A crude way of damping is to introduce friction into the system, but it's not ideal. Not sure I'm qualified to give engineering advice - I've just bent the fork crown on one of my bikes under heavy braking! (It does have a 180 mm disc on a 20" wheel and a 4-pot Hope caliper)
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stormbird
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 5:09pm |
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Geoff Ah however real world data is worth more than some figures on a spreadsheet ![]() Ok real world figures for my project are as follows, for current trike and it's daily payload + me :- Each rear wheel 64 lb giving a total weight at the rear of 128lb Front wheel 86 lb Giving a total rolling weight of approx 214 lb or 97 kilo regards Paul |
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Andrew S
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 5:16pm |
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I hope all of this will see the light of day as a magazine article when it's all sorted, or possibly a Special Bumper Suspension Edition to see us through the long dark winter months.
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GeoffBird
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 6:42pm |
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Surely for the Spring Edition would be more apt Andrew?
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Andrew S
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 10:22pm |
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stormbird
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Posted: 25 October 2017 at 11:07pm |
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Ok adding more accurate figures from post above I get :-
It looks like 3.5" is the best option using a 550 lb spring , that will be only 10% stiffer than predicted value ? If fully camping load carried I could change to the 750 lb spring ? only 7% weaker than predicted value and I have a 450 lb and 650 lb to fall back on ? This article is it meant to be written by me asking for advice ? Geoff giving advice ? Or from some other perspective ? I can't see anyone else on here wanting to know how to spring a python rear end in such a crude way , and hats off to Geoff for persevering with such a lame request ![]() regards Paul |
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