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gNick
BHPC Member
Joined: 22 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
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Topic: Completely Unfaired class Posted: 03 November 2005 at 12:50pm |
Mike Burrows has been thinking again about the class system...and I quote (his words and ideas not mine!):-
Proposals for a new class for completely unfaired bikes.
Premise:- That this should be an entry level/price point class.
*No fairings of any form *No wheel disks, trispokes, very deep rims *No "filling in" for aerodynamic gain whether structural or not (e.g. NoCom and Cobra not eligible) Forks/monoblades have good functional reasons to be thin (e.g. clearance of leg/chain) so OK *For price point reasons no carbon or titanium except home builders (but not for the likes of Simon Sanderson!)
Current "unfaired" could then be "part-faired" and allow bodyline boots.
Edited by gNick
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AlanGoodman
Admin Group
Club Chairman
Joined: 04 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 8036
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 1:41pm |
Sounds like a reasonable idea but would we need that AND Sports Class...?
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Adrian Setter
BHPC Member
Joined: 04 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1606
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 2:06pm |
The premise is fine, but isn't fulfilling that just that premise what most of the recent - and not so recent - debate on the Sports class been to do with?
Having yet another class, based on the rules above - which, I must say, sound more than a little UCI-esque to me - seems to be just the type of splitting our competitions into ever-smaller classes that I thought Mike was objecting to at the AGM. (I'll give Mike the benefit of the doubt and assume that in the course of the extremely brief debate he didn't come to realise that the new "Unfaired Ladies" class would compare very well in terms of participation and competitiveness with the Sports and Multitrack classes, let alone Junior and Arm-powered.)
Mike doesn't have such a machine on the drawing-board, does he?
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Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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GeoffBird
BHPC Member
Joined: 20 September 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 2:39pm |
Adrian Setter wrote: "Mike doesn't have such a machine on the drawing-board, does he?"
How could you think such a thing, Adrian . It is suspicious that aero-shaped forks (just like Mike uses) are allowed, whereas aero-shaped frames (Mike uses tubes) are not...
What is this class for? The less bodywork you are allowed the more important the riding position so you'd have to buy (£1200 +) or make a very low racer. Having done that, why not make some fabric wheel covers (a few quid and a couple of evening's work) and buy a tail-fairing (few hundred quid) and compete in the current unfaired class?
How do you define 'homebuilder' or 'filling-in'? What is a 'very deep rim', as opposed to a deep rim?
The only reason I can see for a totally unfaired class is to compare records with UCI bikes because stick-bike riders would consider a tail-fairing cheating. You would then be comparing the recumbent position directly with the 'monkey-on-a-stick' position. But as an additional BHPC racing class it's pointless.
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 3:14pm |
GeoffBird wrote:
The only reason I can see for a totally unfaired class is to compare records with UCI bikes because stick-bike riders would consider a tail-fairing cheating. You would then be comparing the recumbent position directly with the 'monkey-on-a-stick' position. But as an additional BHPC racing class it's pointless.
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But competing with the stick bikes is what the No-Com and NME(amongst others) are good at, surely ? No tailbox, low, quick, and unfaired. OK, so there's a little bit of shoulder fairing on the No-Com, and the wheeldisc could come off, but still ....
I agree with Geoff as the class being pretty pointless. For one thing, you couldn't buy/build/steal a cheap multipurpose bike (that would be the Sports class one ), you would have to come up with something specific to these 'rules', and that seems silly to me. If I wanted something other than a sports class bike, then I would get an unfaired one. Oh, I have. 
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gNick
BHPC Member
Joined: 22 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 4:23pm |
Mike is building one, though because of Vaughn's request for a Ratracer without a tailbox than his own ideas. One thing that prompts him was that the vast majority of bikes at CycleVision were of this type. An equivalent to club roadies general purpose stick bikes I suppose. I don't go with the price point - if someone wants to spend shedloads on a bike with less than iseal aerodynamics that is their lookout! As what constitutes a fairing as opposed to a structural design is likely to incite much debate. Personally I would think that the NoCom's rear shape makes little difference, but the front wheel wrap on a few bikes might.
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gNick
"I'm afraid it's definite, Mrs Banker - your son has bicycles"
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Neil F
Visitor (moderated)
Joined: 09 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 449
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 6:47pm |
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I can see an argument for unfaired/partially-faired/totally faired classes. This seems to mirror the US rules with stock and super stock classes. Now there is a good argument that tailboxes are a Good Thing and anyone not using them needs their head examined. So if you choose not to use a tailbox then you shouldn't complain. However, if we are to go for a unfaired (no tailbox) class (which I think is good idea) then there is no logical reason for excluding the NoCom or Cobra. After all these bikes were explicitly designed to race as unfaired bikes. As far as saying just because thay are carbon they are too expensive and hence bad this is poor. My NoCom cost less than a StreetMachine with all the goodies. So if the issue is cost then so be it put a cost limit on it - just don't arbitarily exclude a group of bikes just because of what they are built from. Also don't exclude bikes just because the home builder just happens to be extremely good at home building.
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KevinJ
Committee
Joined: 04 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 6:56pm |
If we are going to do something like this why not match it to one of the existing classes (as in Europe? or the states) That is make use their rules and not ours.
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Kevin Jenkins
Windcheetah
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GeoffBird
BHPC Member
Joined: 20 September 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 8:27pm |
If we are going to have a partially-faired class then why not allow bikes with a nosecone and tailbox - they're nowhere near as fast as a fully-faired bike, they are probably no quicker than a good tail-faired low racer and they are practical road bikes. It would also mean that you could make your uncompetitive Kingcycle, Ross or Hurricane competitive by adding a nosecone (and make it a better road bike at the same time). Consequently we could dispense with the Sports Class!
Of course, the fact that I'm currently building a nose/tail faired bike and I sell (theoretically) nosecone mouldings has nothing to do with my proposing this idea...
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gNick
BHPC Member
Joined: 22 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
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Posted: 03 November 2005 at 9:38pm |
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The idea is to reflect what currently exists in the European races if
not what the classes currently are. The introduction of a totally
unfaired class then puts the extended tailbox (as per the Birk), faired
frame, disk wheeled bikes that currently race as unfaired into an
appropriate class of their own.
I do think that the introduction of a nosecone is a definite step
forward from the tailbox only. Hey we can add two classes here, though
I would think we should have a minimum number of competitors both in a
single race and accross the season to warrant it...
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gNick
"I'm afraid it's definite, Mrs Banker - your son has bicycles"
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