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Worlds v Cyclevision

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Yanto63 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 June 2010 at 10:01pm
Firstly this is meant as no disrepect to participents/ organisers of both events.

I am perplexed that an event such as cyclevision with all it's racing is not classed as the worlds. Is there really room in the event calander for two such events? Or am i missing the point?
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Rob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 6:58am
CycleVision sometimes is the Worlds...
But in theory the Worlds move from country-to-country so everyone gets a go hosting them on a 7(?) year schedule. But sometimes groups 'pass' and others (such as Jersey) step up to the mark.
But CycleVision is really an annual national race meet for the Nederlands HPV club with an open invite for the rest of us to come along to play.
I'm sure Jack will be along with full details shortly...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack Dekker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 11:21am
Well Rob, you are almost right. The 7 year schedule was initially a 14 year schedule, with a wc in one European country and in America every other year. This was arranged in the old IHPVA, which is now reformed to WHPVA. I do not remember exactly, but America never succeeded in organizing a WC.

 

According to former chairman Ben Wichers Schreur the scheme is as follows:

Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France, Germany, UK, Switzerland all in a certain order.  For some years several countries did not take their turn, the Switzerland venue was changed to Austria for example.

This year it was Germany that was in line for a WC. However, they did turn down this favor and some Englishman stepped in.

http://www.bhpc.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3395&KW=sorted&PID=34098&title=worlds-2010#34098

It would have been the first year without a WC otherwise.

 

If organizers want to organize an event there are some “regulations” such as a shared meal on one of the nights and at least one street race. Preferably the organization will fix a date during summer holidays, so that people from abroad can take it into account while planning their holidays.

(in france there were shared meals every evening, but everybody can do as they like it). These rules are not strict, during the WC in Belgium all races were at the race track.

 

We (editorial team of ligfiets.net and the dutch NVHPV club)  do traditionally support these initiatives actively with

-          Possibility to rent our timing equipment and people who know about recumbent racing such as rules and regulations.

-          Registration via the website www.ligfiets.net

-          Multiple news items and editorial pieces on the event

 

We furthermore do not use a classification such as European championship or something like that for Cycle Vision. That was a question from the whpva organization.  So we do not do this.

This year there were not much competitors from France, and also some well known names from the UK missed out on our event.

Some people were worried about competitor numbers at Cycle Vision, one week before the closing date there were  “only” 70 participants. Because there was little time between the two there was some cannibalism on participants. In the end about 160 people rode one or more races during Cycle Vision . This was less than last year in Tilburg  when we had the WC. Shared meals, camp site and breakfast was popular. We had about 200 people camping who stayed in total 340 nights,

 70 people joining in on breakfast and 90 people eating on Saturday evening (70 meals were served on Friday).

 

Out event has a good venue, but the outside track was in very bad condition for 4 years. So some streamliners did not enjoy it. But the track has a new surface now, which was only 2 weeks old when we used it.

 

Also, there were complaints on the exception of streamliners in the velodrome. This rule was formed on the basis of the experience of our german racers who claimed it was not possible. However, the dutch racing committee tried it for a season to allow fully faired bikes and there were no problems with it. Altough, during Cycle Vision it could be a little busy, so next year we plan on other races for uf,ff,pf separately (and also make the velodrome race rules in several languages).

 

 

Next year I heard the Swiss want to organize a WC. That would be nice!



Edited by Jack Dekker - 14 June 2010 at 11:24am
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Andhar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andhar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 11:36am
Jack,
that would be some Scotsman stepped in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeeW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Jack Dekker Jack Dekker wrote:


former chairman Ben Wichers Schreur the scheme is as follows:

Netherlands,
Denmark, Belgium, France, Germany, UK, Switzerland all in a certain order. <span style=""> </span>For some years several countries did not take
their turn, the Switzerland venue was changed to Austria for example.


That sounds more like European championships, not world! Any idea why countries like Australia (OZHPV), Japan, China, Russia, South Africa etc don't have a worlds? I'm also surprised that the USA or canada cannot organize a WC?

Edited by LeeW - 14 June 2010 at 1:08pm
Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany!

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Rob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 4:32pm
Consider the complexity of getting the riders and machines transported Lee...
The south of France is a summer holiday trip for most of us who went.
Southern Germany was a more challenging trip.
Switzerland and Austria mean even more road travel to get there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KevinJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 5:17pm
The problem seems to be this is all very much amateurs using their own money.  Others can explain what happened in the States better than I but the travel problems come into play there in even holding a national championship.  (think of the arguments we have within our club in whether more races are North or South, and we are talking hundreds of miles, and not thousands!).

To be able to host the Worlds I suspect you have to have a reasonably affective National organisation.  That is harder the larger the country you have to span.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeeW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 6:37pm
What about people not living near europe though? We don't have to go to the worlds every year? By having all the 'worlds' in western europe every time most of the rest of the world is excluded as they would have to travel a very long way to get here.
Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 25hz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 7:24pm
Being new, enthusiastic, and likely naive, I have a few thoughts . .
 
In 2002, the Brantford HPV gang hosted the worlds, in Brantford.  There were a few logistical problems due to a number of non-HPV club helpers/volunteers letting their egos overstep common sense, but in the end, the event went off.
 
Prior to that, there was a North American Championship in Quebec, Montreal in 2001, and a couple times in Wisconsin in 1997, and 1998 I think.  Just being new to bent racing (7 years), I missed the "big" NA bent races.  With the HPRA racing series being well run, stable and generally well attended, they have 2-day races every month starting from April and running until October.  May is the only month with no HPRA races.  There is talk of some interest in having a new HPRA race either in Pennsylvania or Texas to fill in the month of May.  Usually there is also a race in Florida during Feb/Mar.  Add to that Battle Mountain in Sept, plus a myriad of bent-friendly time trial series, 12 and 24hr ultra races, RAAM, senior olympics, and I guess most North American bent racers feel there is no need for, or possibly time/money/point in another North American Championship.  I think the NA Championships happened when most of the HPRA racing wasn't completely set up the way it is now, and one of the regular Wisconsin races was just renamed to "championship".
 
Hosting another worlds over here would be something I would be interested in helping to do, but with the economies going the way they are, I would imagine it would be tough, and not really fair, to call a race a "worlds" when many of the Euro racers, some of the fastest on the planet, couldn't afford to come over.  I would be ecstatic to go to a HPRA event where there was "only" 70 racers.  That would be awesome beyond description.  At the same time, just for the record, I don't begrudge the fact that I can't go over to Europe for some of the CVs or Worlds.  At any rate, I think it would be more feasible to try to organize another North American championship, where it's centrally located, with lots of lead time (like for next year) so as many people from the east, west and south, including Canadians, could attend.  Also that would give lots of time to locate an interesting venue (a mix of road course and velodrome if possible) plus make sure the event doesn't fall on or around other regular bent events, which would reduce possible attendees.
 
The biggest problem, aside from money, is distance, as mentioned.  For most of the HPRA races, it's a drive of anywhere from 8 to 12 hours for me.  Even getting the event held in someplace like Wisconsin or Illinois, that would still be something like 1800 miles for the west coast, and 1000 miles to the south and east racers in the US.  With a large number (at least for the HPRA) of racers already in the WI/IL area, that's likely why the previous NA Championships were held there.
 
There are seemingly very few people in Canada interested in racing in Canada, the distances are as great or larger, and the cost and distances involved are even greater to travel north.  Also, the vast majority of bent racers over here are American, so to expect the vast majority to come north, with this economy, and the need for passports, I think the attendance would suffer greatly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeithD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 9:39pm
Based on my first and second hand experience of organising events and personal experience of attending national & international events I'd agree that it's the travel and lack of 'big money' (personal, industry or government) in the sport to fund it. While human powered international travel (Mark Beaumont style) is cheap, most do not have the time. I think it is obvious that our sport is too small for a true global 'world' championship every year. I do not mean this in a negative way - and it's a statement that should not detract from the efforts of organisers, helpers and competitors associated with past, present and future World Championships.

What might work is to have 'Continental' championships every year (Americas, Europe, Australasia) and every 4 years (or every 3 just to be different!Evil Smile) one of these Continental championships would be deemed (by rota, vote etc) to be the 'World' championship. During the year of a World championship, the other continents would take a (welcome?) break from organising a Continental championship to allow/encourage competitors to travel to that year's World championship. 
This sort of scheme would be a bit tough on people who liked racing with people from other countries (or states) but can't afford to travel overseas - they'd have 1 year in 4 (or 3) where their preferred competition wasn't taking place. But 
a) there would be 1 year in 4 (or 3) where they could race against people from over-seas and 
b) you can't keep all the people happy all of the time!

But this would require agreement and co-operation on a whole range of things which, based on last year's (or was it the year before's?) squabble over how to run a web site and domain name ownership, may be some way off. Unhappy



Andhar - thanks for pointing out Jack's mistake about my nationality. I was going to let him off - it's sometimes hard for someone from abroad to tell the difference between a Scotsman and  an Englishman - especially if they are Belgian. Wink



Edited by McDee - 14 June 2010 at 9:43pm
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