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Topic ClosedIf the UCI were open minded...
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antony View Drop Down
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Points: 667 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2006 at 9:43am
Originally posted by NickM NickM wrote:

to extract the maximum weight advantage there they would need to be unfaired, which would cost time everywhere else. Maybe.


Given vast collection of support vehicles and that we're inventing the entire scenario* anyway, I've decided there's enough space in my team's support convoy to carry our quick-release fairing sections if losing the weight for the closing climb(s) of a stage was a good idea.




*Itself predicated on the UCI being open minded.
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Points: 119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2006 at 7:35pm
I think that a peloton of something like VK2's - stiff, light lowracers - could be a real challenge to an upright peloton even on mountain stages. I personally don't find any difference in the climbing ability of my Speedmachine and my upright 531c touring bike and Durham is very hilly so I get plenty of time to experiment. I don't think the position is less efficient, although it may give a lower max sprint power.

If you look at the results from USCF races where recumbents have been allowed you generally find that the recumbent cyclists win, or finish near the top of the field irrespective of the course terrain.

I don't think that RAAM is a very good test since an awful lot of it is down to luck, organisation and the sheer grim determination of the riders.
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2006 at 7:46pm
I apologise in advance for lowering the overall tone, but the second reason (other than speed) why I became interested in recumbents was the overall comfort. I know professionals train for many hours and get used to riding long distances on stick bikes, surely they would arrive with less physical fatigue on a recumbent. My (_l_) aches something silly after three hours on a stick bike.Smile
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Points: 1450 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2006 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by giskard giskard wrote:

I know professionals train for many hours and get used to riding long distances on stick bikes, surely they would arrive with less physical fatigue on a recumbent. My (_l_) aches something silly after three hours on a stick bike.Smile


Certainly made a difference for me when I first started doing 80 mile rides on the trike. On the upright I noticed that the last 20 miles I was slowing down and riding watching the road 6ft ahead of the front wheel. Same route on the trike and I was still keeping a constant pace and looking straight down the road.

Must surely make a difference on a day-in, day-out stage race.

Rob
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http://www.wrhpv.com   http://mullimages.com   http://glydearoundbritain.blogspot.com
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2006 at 11:09pm
Until the recent low bikes, which are significantly better, the performance of unfaired recumbents has been pretty disappointing. The frontal area may be lower but the Cd, and total drag, may not be. I don't believe unfaireds will ever beat a light upright up a serious mountain. It's a question of muscles in use.
Faired bikes are another matter. I was doing 26 min 10 mile time trials on my upright. My first fabric faired bike, way under geared and untried, got round in 21 mins. They put me off 1st, expecting me to be slow. There was much shaking of stopwatches.
Solid fairings are another huge leap better.
Sam Whittingham says he produces significantly less power in the recumbent position. He has won sprints against Nothstein, so he's top class.     
Do we want the UCI?  They screwed up enough times already. I had some relevant experience when I was working with handcycles. The self appointed IPC (paralymic committee)(BCF) person decided to make a set of rules. He wanted all handcycles to have a high groung clearance, to be made of tubes, have 3 wheels etc etc. His rules would have outlawed quite a few of the expensive machines people were already riding.  Handcycling  is a very new sport. If it were to get frozen now, it will be like restricting bikes to The Ordinary.
We want our bikes to evolve using all the materials that are available, not restricted to sticks. Feather weight bikes that are simple and cheap to produce would be nice!
The market is not big enough, so some of us continue to try and build our dream bikes.
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antony View Drop Down
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Points: 667 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2006 at 6:24pm
Here here!

As to climbing serious mountains, there's a simple if somewhat unscientific test.

Take a friend, one light unfaired 'bent and one light upright to a serious mountain for a week or so. Ride up said serious mountain several times over the week, alternating bikes.

Pick a mountain and time of year to give reasonably consistent weather for the week.

Deja mu: The feeling you've heard this bull before
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alexjrice View Drop Down
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Points: 119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2006 at 6:46pm
Except that would be slightly confounded by the difference in muscle usage. I find hills at least as hard in the upright position, but then I do almost all my cycling lying down so that's what I'm optimised for.

What we need is two identical twins, one trained in the recumbent position, the other on an upright. Any volunteers?

You don't really need the mountains, it could be simulated easily enough. In fact, if anyone has an upright and a recumbent and one of the wind trainers that reads power output they could do it in their garage. Aero differences will be negated by low speeds so all you're really testing is Critical Power in the two positions.
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Points: 1926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2006 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by alexjrice alexjrice wrote:

...What we need is two identical twins, one trained in the recumbent position, the other on an upright...

For statistical validity, surely we require not less than six pairs of same?
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Points: 119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2006 at 7:48pm
Okay, six twins it is, I'm sure there was a lady who gave birth to octuplets some years ago. I'm sure they'd love to be part of our little experiment!Clown
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Points: 1554 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2006 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Protobikes Protobikes wrote:

Until the recent low bikes, which are significantly better, the performance of unfaired recumbents has been pretty disappointing. The frontal area may be lower but the Cd, and total drag, may not be. I don't believe unfaireds will ever beat a light upright up a serious mountain. It's a question of muscles in use.


There is, on Lightning's web site, some footage of Tim Brummer overtaking a Several of uprights on a climb, mounted upon an R-84.  http://www.lightningbikes.com/cyber.htm
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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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