A question on multitrack racing and records
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Topic: A question on multitrack racing and records
Posted By: 25hz
Subject: A question on multitrack racing and records
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 3:53pm
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Drilling back through the race results for the club (at least to 200), it seems that the race formats are primarily the longer duration type. Do you guys ever run events to set 200m, 1km or one hour records/marks or that generally only happens at the worlds (or maybe not even there either)?
With the UK being the home of the Windcheetah and the ICE machines I was looking to see if there were any standing trike/multitrack records that could be considered marks for a WRRA record.
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Replies:
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 4:01pm
| the worlds results are at http://www.wc2008.org.uk/res.htm - http://www.wc2008.org.uk/res.htm Neil |
Posted By: Adrian Setter
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 8:02pm
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Though I can't say no such thing exists, I don't recall having seen a multitrack class at an HPV event outside the UK.
------------- Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer |
Posted By: Rob
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 8:37pm
I've participated in them at a few European locations... certainly more than once at Lelystadt and, I believe, Freidrichshaven. As I have mentioned previously biggest surprise the first time round was to discover that a that multi-track included faired quests. Rob ------------- -- Rob, Westcountry Recumbents http://www.wrhpv.com http://mullimages.com http://glydearoundbritain.blogspot.com |
Adrian Setter wrote:Posted By: 25hz
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 1:28pm
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It seems that multitrack racing, and I mean stock trikes, is at a minimum in the UK. It would be nice if all the big governing organizations got together and decided on some basic class name and definitions. It'd make things easier, but I prefer "multitrack" to "trike". I guess as more racers in each class show up, multitrack can be subdivided into velos and stock or superstock trikes instead of confusingly lumping them all together. I have been to a few races where they required a minimum of 5 racers to establish their own class, do you guys do that for BHPC races too? That might encourage more peopel on a stock triek to race if they know they don't have to compete with a Quest, etc. Over here in the colonies, up here, there are more trikes than 2 wheelers, so they get/got raced at every event. In the HPRA series, most of the racers seemed to gravitate toward 2 wheelers, but in the last couple years, there are more and more trike racers and every event has trike specific races now. Velomobiles are still few and far between and they race either as a streamliner (if the rider's head is enclosed) or as superstreet if the head is exposed. The race format seems to gravitate toward the smaller races too. Maybe shorter individual races makes more variety and interest and makes the effort of going to a race more attractive? It seems there are more 200m, 1km and shorter lap races, plus they all try to make them 2 day events to maximize racing for the effort of having to drive a few hundred km to go compete. It's an aspect I particularly appreciate.The Aussies/Kiwis have a long history of trike racing, but it seems to be less so with stock trikes and predominantly faired trikes. It's interesting how the bent demographics develop and are seemingly so different from one country or region to the next.
Thanks for the link Neil. I was looking for best efforts from the MT racers for some info gathering for WRRA recognition. I found a couple Dutch results (from a dude on an '06 Speed) that better the times set by Chris Burkhart from the US. Officially grouping MT races might encourage more participation and hopefully before too long, it too can be split into stock, faired, etc.
Are there many pedal car racers that race in bent events? Do they get their fill from their own race series so they have little time or desire to race at other events against trikes? Can the better designed ones be competitive with trikes?
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 1:48pm
This opens a complete bag of worms as far as I and a number of others are concerned.
Not as many as there should be - there have been many occasions in the past where pedal car racers have raced in the BHPC but there have in the past been problems with events being on the same date as well as issues with the BHPC class system. Neil
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Posted By: jes@gcre
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 2:23pm
Yes. Although it rather depends on the squashy bit inside the fairing as well
 .Designing a machine that carries 1 rider for 1 hour on an open circuit is a different prospect to desiging a machine that has to cope with 6 different sized riders for 24 hours on a go-kart track of course.
Last time I raced a BHPC event - Shrewsbury 2007 - the pedal cars finished sort of in the middle in the overall results.
But Neil has a 4 wheeled HPV ("Quadliner") that isn't IPCS compliant because the fairing is (or was last I saw it) more than 2030mm long which should therefore be able to give the faired trikes a much better run for their money.
------------- Racing is life... Anything which happens before or afterwards is just standing around waiting to race.... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 5:19pm
Oooh, sounds cool. You got any pictures, Neil ? Coming to any of the BHPC events with it ? Would want to see that ! |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 5:35pm
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It raced at darley more a couple of years back - but with the old chassis - unfortunately we had also been playing with an idea with the bearings and so whilst fast in practice - ended up with the back axles with lots of drag.
There are some pictures at http://www.pedalcars.info/news/archive/news_item.asp?NewsID=332&FromPage=3 - http://www.pedalcars.info/news/archive/news_item.asp?NewsID=332&FromPage=3
At some point I may fit it to the http://www.bhpc.org.uk/building-a-quad.aspx - new chassis which runs with much less friction but at the moment I have no intention of bringing it to a BHPC race.
Neil
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 7:38pm
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Neil That fairing is awesome - have you/does anyone have the molds, and could I get one made up ? That looks so much better than mine is likely to be that it's just not fair  |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 8:10pm
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I saw that quadliner at Darly moor, when I first saw it I thought it looked really fast and I expected it to be lapping me lots but I ended up beating it on my unfaired trike. Has it been raced since? It looks a very nice and well made fairing, it seems a shame just for it to be sat in a shed. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: Yowie
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 8:23pm
| More than a likeness to member_profile.asp?PF=54 - IanChattington 's Squashed Orange? |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 9:26pm
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 9:29pm
Neil
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 9:30pm
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Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 9:37pm
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Could I get one made up too?
(although I think I will go with a good old correx fairing for the Quad I'm building) ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 9:41pm
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Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 9:50pm
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How narrow is very narrow? I'm thinking of building a fairing about 420mm wide at widest point.
Is that a trykit 2Wd axle on your new chassis? I am considering using one of those myself. Although I may go for a simpler and cheaper 1wd design. It is basically a test mule for the two seater I'm thinking of building (picts in another thread). I have entered the belchford downhill challenge in september this year and will be building a quad for that. I thought I would add a drivetrain while I was at it and simply remove it for the downhill challange. It will make the quad more useful, I may even try racing it at a BPCC event, if I can bring myself to cut off 470mm of the tail, maybe a 24hr one in PC0 (although I seem to remember reading somewhere one is not allowed to ride all 24 hours?). It's gonna be made from some cheap 1018 ERW steel, thus rather heavy. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 10:41pm
The 2wd is custom made - but I am trying to get the guy that made it to make a batch for me.
Not sure about the width - Think its about 420 - I am sure Rob will let you know when he has built one
Neil
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 8:50am
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420 = 16.54". My shoulders = 17". Track = 16"
Should be interesting ! Can't wait to get started ...
Cheers Neil
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Posted By: jes@gcre
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 9:43am
If it is for PC0 then it only has to fit you so you can go as narrow as you like provided you are comfortable.
Like I said somewhere before, if you are building a car for a team then you have to get your biggest driver, your smallest driver and probably several people you don't even know yet to pedal it over the course of the next few years and they have to be comfortable and like it enough to want to come back!
Therefore there are many compromises that might have to be made because, while the human body is wonderfully adaptable, you are asking someone to spend 4 hours in it and cover 80 or so miles during that time whilst feeling able to throw it round corners into the bargain.
I rattle around no end in the fairing on our cars this season but that it because it was designed for a non-existent hybrid person with Matt's legs, Chris' back, Tom's rugby playing broad shoulders and Dave's huge butt!
And don't worry about cheap metal - most of what we use on pedal cars is carefully selected for it's cheapness and hard wearing qualities! ------------- Racing is life... Anything which happens before or afterwards is just standing around waiting to race.... |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 1:37pm
Entries need to be in shortly for this years 24hr race if you want to register. Using the wonders of technology you can even register and pay for it online http://www.pedalcars.info/shop/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=297 - here
Neil
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Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 3:04pm
Go for it Lee...  ------------- |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 10:31pm
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It won't be ready for this year... I've just about mastered the tig welder. I actually tigged two round tubes together today at the collage and the guy there said it looked pritty good although it had some minor undercut. For the next 10 or so weeks I can use the tig at the collage but then it shuts for the summer thus I will prob go out and buy my own tig, my mig seems crap in comparison and never could get a decent looking weld. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 7:48am
| Dont underestimate the use of brazing - especially for thin walled tubing |
Posted By: stormbird
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 2:18pm
lee
Are you on a proper course ? our local college don't seem to be interested in anything but a full blown CofG course at tremendous cost.
regards paul
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Posted By: 25hz
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 8:03pm
If you can hook gas to it, do it. It makes a big difference on the quality, look and ease of making the bead. It'll never look like a TIG bead, but it can easily look like a nice, small ARC bead. Even for thin walled tubing, just stitch weld it. Get the torch where you want it, squeeze the trigger like you're firing a pistol (and release the trigger then), move a little along the joint, before the glow is gone "shoot" it again, repeat. Very effective at hole and gap filling and welding thin material where heat build-up causes blow throughs.
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Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 9:56pm
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Yes, I did a City and guilds course, 3 hours per week for 36 weeks. I actually did two courses in one year as I was a quick learner. C&G mig level 1 and C&G tig level 1. I had my last session yesterday but they have ended the course early (was supposed to be end of june) as basically I was the only guy going in, everyone else had finished the course (I'd finished the actual course a few weeks back but was still going for practising/playing around). Anyway My welds are now looking fairly good. I've almost finished making some landing gear for the fish, I will post pictures when done. I've just gone and spent a small fortune on my very own DC/AC, hf start tig welder (yep, gonna give AL a try sometime). Delivery next week.
Anyone want to buy a Clarke 135TE mig welder? ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: stormbird
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 6:44am
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Lee I wondered if I cut some of my steel whether they would let me weld my own stuff on the course or whether that would disrupt the class to much ? After all those hours your MIG was still not very good ? I have done some gas welding in the past so really TIG is closer to what I could do then than MIG but to be honest it was 25 years ago ! All I remember was always being fascinated with the weld pool and I could not keep my eyes off it. regards Paul |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 7:35am
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It most likely depends on the collage. I was able to make some handlebars and a new, longer swingarm for the fish.
I could never get decent looking welds with mig, not sure if it was me or the machine. Apparently I'm a bit of a perfectionist though. Country to what many say, I found tig easier to master than mig. Just a shame that a proper tig welder is so expensive. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: 25hz
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 2:08pm
| In checking the rules page, there appears to be a faired multi-track class now. Cool. Does that mean velomobiles and fully faired trikes (like Rob's intended tilting streamliner) would be racing in that class instead of the open class, or that is yet to be decided? |
Posted By: Adrian Setter
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 3:12pm
It means that there is a class in which velomobiles and faired trikes (and, of course, faired quads, pedalcars, etc.) can compete against each other. Like everybody else, they're in the Open class, too. And unfaired multitracks (which in the best British style of keeping up traditions, no matter how confusing, we give a class called just "Multitrack") also score points in Faired Multitrack, just in case anyone should invent a particularly fast trike without fairings or - more likely - takes a fancy to getting handy with correx mid-season.
------------- Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer |
Posted By: 25hz
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 6:13pm
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That's cool. It's pretty slick how everyone is also automagically entered in the next higher/faster classes as well. I imagine at some time or other that has unexpectedly resulted in a winner from out of left field?
I think I saw in some of the old newsletters some trophy awards ceremonies for the different classes at year end? I think the homebuilder trophy was a bike made out of wound wire. Pretty cool looking.
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Posted By: Rob
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 7:53pm
"Qualcast" will hopefully be making her first appearance in the partially faired multitrack racing lawnmower class this Sunday... You will know what I mean when you see her! Is it 'Sports' class if I just have a front fairing? <fx: ducks and runs> Rob ------------- -- Rob, Westcountry Recumbents http://www.wrhpv.com http://mullimages.com http://glydearoundbritain.blogspot.com |
Posted By: fards
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 8:56pm
yay someone to race against in faired multi on sunday  Great blog btw Rob.. |
Posted By: Rob
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 9:03pm
Well this race will be a test for the pedal box... If it works I'll be making a new one based on the dimensions aiming to have something faster for Curborough/Hillingdon...
Why thank you sir! Rob ------------- -- Rob, Westcountry Recumbents http://www.wrhpv.com http://mullimages.com http://glydearoundbritain.blogspot.com |
Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 9:43am
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Qualcast Mutilator was the singer in Lawnmower Deth. Be afraid, young Rob. Be very afraid.
------------- ==================== a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds |
Posted By: Yanto63
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 10:10am
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[QUOTE=fards] yay someone to race against in faired multi on sunday
err umm, if i can make it on Sunday I might bring the Quest!!!!  ------------- Ian |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:06pm
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Must remember my camera, we may have 3 Quests racing at Scunthrope. And hopefully miles too making 4 people riding O/Mf. Oh, my mate guy maybe popping along too to make 5 people riding O/Mf. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: JDub
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:12pm
I made the homebuilders trophy. It's the one like a little silver Zeppelin. I also made the junior, ladies and arm powered trophies. I think the wire one is probably unfaired. I think Tina Brandenburg made it. We also have a newcomers trophy and 'The Unfortunate Scotsman' trophy. If he wasn't winning I might suggest Mike B. for that one. Overheating bearings is certainly unusual. ------------- jdub... Got the T-shirt http://protobikes.org.uk/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/150386999@N02/ |
Posted By: Yanto63
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:16pm
It is a long shot that i will be available, but if so then i will bring the quest, as for racing, well i think participating is more likely, only had two round trips to work and back in it, so still sorting seating/pedal position, and still not sure about cornering abilities !! we will see !!  ------------- Ian |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:47pm
What about stacking it (or leeing it) at over 30mph? ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: stormbird
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 2:51pm
Hi there
No cornering abilities needed it's a velodrome ! just pedal like mad physics does the rest !
regards Paul
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 3:15pm
Unless you do anything else, Lee, I think that you've got that one sewn up ...  Perhaps we could do with a jersey for the most http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combativity_award - 'agressive' rider  |
Posted By: Adrian Setter
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 3:51pm
Oh, I dunno. Wouldn't I get a consideration for being beaten into second place Part Faired by three different riders in three years? And the, way this season's been going so far, missing out on a full 1000-point event through a combination of olb but outrageously fast bike designers, interloping Dutchmen, EVIL drag races and, for all I know yet, the return of P++l C+ll+nd+r. CHIZ, and CHIZ agane.
------------- Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer |
Posted By: fards
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 3:57pm
you just needsome more circuits with hills in, that would be one ofvyour arch enemies eliminated atany rate. .. |
Posted By: Adrian Setter
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 4:12pm
But as soon as there are hills, McDee beats me...  ------------- Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer |
Posted By: KeithD
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 5:17pm
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That's right - the nemesis-of-adrian-tag-team(McDee & MB) have all courses covered!
If it's about results (or lack of), does first across the line at the Jersey Town Criterium DQ Adrian from the 'The Unfortunate Scotsman' trophy?
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Posted By: Yanto63
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 7:26pm
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Sorry but i can't make it sunday - urgent family business!!! my Quest will have to stay in the shed! ------------- Ian |
Posted By: Rob
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 7:51pm
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Ha, that just gives me more time to do more work[1] to get "Quatcast" faster! Rob [1] Of course I mean through technological improvements rathat than the banned 'T' word!!! ------------- -- Rob, Westcountry Recumbents http://www.wrhpv.com http://mullimages.com http://glydearoundbritain.blogspot.com |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 8:01am
Next year I have considered buying a Birkenstock comet and going partly faired. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: Paul Lowing
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 2:31pm
| Aren't Birkenstocks about a squillion pounds each? |
Posted By: LeeW
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 6:04pm
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About £6.8k last time I checked
It's either that for my next bike or a Trisled avatar which after shipping etc will cost about the same. ------------- Current fleet: Milan SL MK2 #027, Fujin SL II, Beany! |
Posted By: Nitram
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 6:55pm
I got mine from TKMax for about £20, they're a very comfy pair of sandals
 I'll get my coat... ------------- When a ball dreams it dreams it's a frisbee When a bike dreams it dreams it's a trike
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Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 10 August 2009 at 3:09pm
The wire-wound SWB-shaped trophy is the Unfortunate Scotsman Trophy. ------------- ==================== a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds |