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Refurbing Greenspeed GT3

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Topic: Refurbing Greenspeed GT3
Posted By: LWaB
Subject: Refurbing Greenspeed GT3
Date Posted: 31 May 2024 at 4:52pm
The Young Lady purchased a used Greenspeed GT3 a while ago but has not ridden it any significant distance due to “it is unsteady at high speed and pulls under brakes”.

The wheels have very low spoke tension and that is easy to fix in itself (I have a tensiometer) but I understand that it is possible to pull Sturmey drums out of round under high spoke tensions. How do I avoid this?

There are some other issues.

The folding hinge has noticeable play and tightening the QR doesn’t remove the play in the hinge pin, unlike a Birdy, Dahon or Brompton hinge. Is there some trick to removing hinge play that I am missing?

The seat frame is removable and has some play in its mountings. Is this normal?

The track rods have a fair bit of play. What track rod ends should I buy to get better tolerances? I will adjust toe-in as per the handbook afterwards.



Replies:
Posted By: RoyMacdonald
Date Posted: 31 May 2024 at 5:28pm
Try emailing them and see if they can offer any advice or new parts. customerservice@greenspeed-trikes.com
All the best.
Roy

Thumbs Up




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Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 31 May 2024 at 5:33pm
Greenspeed got sold to Terratrike a while back. Existing spares were mostly sold to Trisled with the IP to the USA.

What are some known good track end ball joints in the UK and where can I get them from? What is an acceptable amount of play in track ends?

The Young Lady likes to descend quite quickly on her trikes, so I am looking for something that encourages confident descending.


Posted By: Martin Kiszel
Date Posted: 04 June 2024 at 3:53pm
Geoff Bird would recommend,
 McGill Motorsport - the PTFE lined ones with a brass insert - the high performance ones are too stiff and the cheap ones too loose.
Hope he doesn't mind the mention.

Martin.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 04 June 2024 at 4:53pm
Thanks. Time to check exactly what I need when I am back in the country next weekend.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 18 June 2024 at 10:59pm
The track ball end joints appear to be 5/16” male RH UNF thread. The bore appears to be 5/16” with an M8 Allen bolt pushed into it.

Is this sort of thing correct for a GT3 or has something weird been retrofitted to this trike?

If it is correct, my choices are either cheap and nasty or £20+ joints with nothing in between.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 19 June 2024 at 3:33pm
WizWheelz folk confirm the ball end joints, though they thought they were paired LH/ RH threaded. All four of these are RH threaded though.

https://www.mcgillmotorsport.com/5/16-x-5/16-right-hand-male-xmr5-ultra-high-performance-rod-end-c-55-p-46 is in the mail. Hopefully there won’t be too much drag.


Posted By: Martin Kiszel
Date Posted: 19 June 2024 at 4:13pm
I bought some Performance ones (M6) very recently and they don't feel tight at all, they are silky smooth, with snug tolerances. Bang on.


Posted By: MattH
Date Posted: 30 June 2024 at 8:31am
For the hubs, when I got my Trice it shuddered when braking, which i guessed was them being out of round through a bit of googling. I bought an inexpensive lever dial gauge from eBay and mounted it against my truing stand, with the lever against the braking surface. This allowed me to adjust tensions to pull it back into being round whilst keeping the wheel true.

This did work very well - all shudder gone and smooth braking. As I didn't care about the actual numbers on the gauge being calibrated, just minimising deflection, a cheap one was good enough.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 30 June 2024 at 5:40pm
There is a tiny bit of drag in these ball ends but I think it helps stabilise the steering, at least that is the rider’s impression..

There is still pulsing in the brakes, possibly because the Sun rims are not entirely round, so there is some variation in spoke tension just to get the wheel true. I suspect I will have to do the dial gauge + spoke tension and possibly sand a drum to stop all of the brake pulsing. It is currently good enough for the Young Lady to actually put some training miles on it.

Next job is to bond the carbon wheel fairings to the 349 rims of her ICE Micro. Any traps for the unwary player?


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 02 July 2024 at 1:41pm
The Young Lady complained today that the rear end snaked around on a downhill when using the Carradice recumbent panniers for a shopping run. Something like 14kg in each pannier apparently.

As noted previously, "The folding hinge has noticeable play and tightening the QR doesn’t remove the play in the hinge pin, unlike a Birdy, Dahon or Brompton hinge. Is there some trick to removing hinge play that I am missing?” I haven't yet found the solution to this issue. Do I need to replace the hinge pin, fit bushes somehow or something else? The hinge pin appears to non-removeable without serious metalwork.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 10 July 2024 at 3:49pm
I have had replies from WizWheels (the new owners of Greenspeed) and Trisled (purchaser of most Greenspeed spares when the business was sold) and neither have any idea how to reduce play in the frame hinge. WizWheels is getting some replacement hinge assemblies but they have no idea if those spare parts fit the obsolete GT3.

Other than getting some replacement metalwork done by a pet machinist, what is my next option?

The frame fold is the major reason this trike was purchased, so brazing the hinge solid is not a solution. The GT3 frame was fabricated in Taiwan. Does anybody know who was the frame manufacturer, Pacific Cycles or somebody else? Getting hold of the detail drawing of the hinge assembly would help in machining replacement parts.


Posted By: Anthony-C
Date Posted: 27 July 2024 at 6:57pm
I haven't seen one of these hinges but would it take up the slack if you shut some JB-Weld in the hinge, after greasing one face so that it still opens?   

(edit) Hope this suggestion isn't wildly out of step with the forces at play.


Posted By: Martin Kiszel
Date Posted: 29 July 2024 at 12:10pm
Is there any chance you could provide pictures or links to show the hinge?
It could be re-pinning the hinge may take up some slop, but also there could be some stretch on the arms.
So as suggested refacing may work for a short time, I was going to say stop gap solution!
An engineer could get the parts clamped up and ream the hinge hole slightly bigger, by say 0.1mm~0.2mm. I don't know the size but they do go up in small increments. Then a new bespoke pin would need making and fitting.  


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 29 July 2024 at 1:53pm
I will try to put up some hinge photos once I get home. Scroll down in  https://www.atob.org.uk/greenspeed-gt3/" rel="nofollow - Greenspeed GT3 (atob.org.uk)  and there is a good folded hinge shot.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4xCGcDe2d4" rel="nofollow - Folding the Greenspeed GT3 Recumbent Trike (youtube.com)  shows the hinge in action.

The short-term plan is to clamp up the hinge with Jubilee clips to prevent any movement.

Long-term, hopefully Geoff Booker will do some interesting metalwork to permanently replace the hinge pin with something a little bigger and to de-ovalise/ oversize the locking pin holes.


Posted By: Anthony-C
Date Posted: 30 July 2024 at 10:47pm
Could you do me a small favour and try shutting a strip cut from inner tube in the hinge and doing it up really hard? I'm so intrigued...

I think the hinge pin and QR pull it together until the side edges nestling in their cutouts resist play in the pin and form a tetrahedron. If the sides aren't springy enough the high spots can be asymetrical, then the tetrahedron's edges wouldn't be perpendicular and would make a narrower axis less resistant to frame flexing. A compressible strip that crosses those edges (i.e. longer than the width of the frame) should centre it up a bit vertically, and also help horizontally if there's play in the pin. So IIUC without rubber it needs doing up even tighter.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 31 July 2024 at 5:59am
Pacific Cycles have responded that I should contact Greenspeed for hinge details as confidentiality prevents them giving out information.

I think that the hinge relies on the tolerances around the hinge pivot pin, the hinge clamping pin and their surrounding holes. There doesn’t seem to be any face-to-face contact of the main hinge components themselves. Wear of powdercoating quickly increases clearances, which can’t help.

https://flic.kr/p/2q7ky87

https://flic.kr/p/2q7is1x



Posted By: Anthony-C
Date Posted: 31 July 2024 at 10:27am


The strip of inner tube is to replace the worn powder coating.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 31 July 2024 at 4:17pm
The main issue is torsion along the main tube, allowing the rear wheel to lean sideways slightly in both directions. The hinge pivot pin is quite a loose fit at both ends (rusty section on the RHS of the photo) and in the middle of the hinge. I am not convinced that a rubber washer would improve torsion resistance sufficiently but I will give it a go over the next day or two.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 01 August 2024 at 9:39am
Pacific Cycles has replied asking for some pictures or video showing the problem. Hopefully they can provide a detail drawing of the joint (to aid remanufacture of the worn joint) or diagnose the cause.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 03 August 2024 at 5:03pm
I am utterly clueless with posting images from Flickr here. Please link me to the forum’s instruction page that tells me what I need to do to make things work.



Posted By: Anthony-C
Date Posted: 03 August 2024 at 7:17pm


Seeing the hinge open it lacks any contact on the side tabs, but ironically a rubber patch right across the lower half might resist torsion a bit (done up hard)

Posting photos: above the message box select Full Editor (jagged arrow icon).


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 03 August 2024 at 9:41pm
The problem is that the hinge pivot pin is a loose fit longitudinally and laterally. Torsionally, the two hinge plate rotate around the QR clamping point, regardless of how tight the QR is. You can see the gap on one side. I think reducing the lateral movement at the hinge pivot pin would mostly solve the problem.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 05 August 2024 at 12:51pm
The chain guide tubing on this trike is looking very second-hand, particularly at the fold. What is the right material to use as replacement chain tube? 12mm ID PTFE tubing, polypropylene irrigation tubing or something else?


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 28 August 2024 at 4:10pm
I have ordered some PTFE tubing from China, 15mm OD and 13mm ID. These dimensions seem to match the chain tubing supplied by Ginkgo. We will see how it works.

A friend has agreed to try remanufacturing the frame hinge with an oversize hinge pivot pin, as recommended by Pacific Cycles, the GT3 frame’s fabricator. Hopefully that will solve this recumbent’s last major issue.


Posted By: nashd
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 4:27pm
I thought I'd tag a question or two onto the end of this thread, if that's okay...

I'm working on an old Greenspeed trike which has crossover tie-rods, one of which is bent.  Where can I buy these?

I saw the earlier recommendation for McGill Motorsport for the rod ends.  Is there anything else I'd need to overhaul the steering?  (I'm not a great mechanic, and trikes are new to me, and I haven't started stripping it so I'm not sure how it hangs together).  Will the rod ends be held onto the trike with standard bolts, or will it need bushes etc?


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 8:56pm
MR Recumbents on Oz got more of the old Greenspeed spare parts than TriSled but they couldn’t help with our wobbly hinge either.

This GT3, and all the others I’ve seen have crossover steering rods with brake cables routed to the opposite wheel to the brake lever from the factory.

The steering rod ball ends used standard metric bolts through them (no bushes required) and screwed into the hollow threaded steering rod with lock nuts. Our GT3’s steering rods had RH threads all round but WizWheels expected half of them to be LH threaded. No idea if this aspect changed sometime during GT frame production.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 09 October 2024 at 9:38pm
All four GT3 ball joints are 5/16” male RH UNF thread. The bore is 5/16” with an M8 Allen bolt pushed into it.

Your Greenspeed may be different, so check before ordering.

If it is only a minor bend in a track rod and the pair of rods don’t clash, does it really matter that one is a bit bent? Steering forces are very small and the thread on the ball end joints allows you compensate for minor length differences.


Posted By: nashd
Date Posted: 10 October 2024 at 9:54am
Thanks very much, LWaB - very helpful.

I contacted MR Recumbents before I bought the trike, and it sounds like some spares aren't available.

The trike was damaged on its way to me.  The chainring was badly bent, and a bar-end mirror had sheared in half (near the ball joint of a B&M mirror).  This in addition to the bent tie rod.   I'm trying to work out what's going on with the steering alignment...

I tied two straps between the handlebars and the crossmember (so that the handlebars were held parallel to the crossmember).  The handlebars also looked parallel to the front edge of the mesh seat when viewed from above.  The right hand wheel (the one without the bent tie rod) has significant toe-in.  I measured very roughly with a tape measure and it might be in the region of 30mm.  The left hand wheel (with the bent tie rod) has maybe 10mm of toe-out.  If the bent rod was straightened then that would increase the toe-out - I'm not sure if it would give 20mm (or whatever measurement would be required to increase the toe-out to match the toe-in of the right hand wheel.  If that were the case then both wheels would be pointing off by a roughly equal amount in the same direction.  If the wheels were then set straight ahead the handlebars would be skewed.  There's not a lot of exposed thread on the tie-rod ends - I could probably extend them, but not shorten them by much.

I'm not sure what's happened to it (I was assured the tracking was perfect before the damage occurred).  I also haven't worked out how to sort it.  Perhaps I just need to keep the handlebars parallel and make whatever significant tie-rod adjustments are necessary, and maybe buy new tie rods and rod ends.

I've asked Trisled for a shipping price for their under-toe wheel alignment tool.  I think it might be a fairly new item, and I'm not sure if it would help in aligning the handlebars to the wheels, but it should help to make the toe-in adjustments easier.




Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 11 October 2024 at 3:23am
You are aiming at a minimal amount of toe-in, 1-3mm? difference between front and back wheel rim to opposite wheel rim Too much increases drag and tyre wear. Too little (toe out!) gives unstable steering.

Are any frame parts bent or the mountings on the king pins or handlebar pivot?


Posted By: nashd
Date Posted: 11 October 2024 at 11:45am
Thanks very much, LWaB.

I can't see a problem with anything else.  I had wondered if the handlebar pivot had been knocked around, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

I think I'll strip off the tie rods, clean and lubricate the tie rod ends and threads etc, try to straighten the obviously bent tie rod, reassemble, then try to adjust toe-in.

I'd like to ride the trike before making a decision on whether or not it's worth doing a full refurb including powder coating.

There seem to be a few other issues including a worn wheel bearing, and some movement which is felt at the rim.  Initially I wondered if that might be caused by the worn bearing, but now think there's play somewhere else - maybe in the backing plate or kingpin.


Posted By: garryb59
Date Posted: 12 October 2024 at 2:18pm
[logging in again after some time]

If this was my bike [and that's important because not everybody would be happy with the following procedure] what I would do is:

1. Renew the hinge pivot bolt if possible
2. Get a sacrificial quick release bolt [or any M8 bolt will do]
3. Rub down one surface [not sure which one I'd choose from here] of the hinge to remove all the paint, and score/make rough with something [possibly even some very light lines with an angle grinder]
4. Put some brown packing tape over the other surface...very carefully and precisely
5. Then get some carbon fibre, lay it inside the hinge [Goldilocks Style - not too much not too little....although less is better because you can always add more later]. It might be difficult to prevent epoxy getting onto the bolt [ hence sacrificial]....and be careful to keep it away from the hinge bolt, but plenty of grease should sort that out.
6. Then do the hinge up real tight. To go belt and braces - take the seat off and get a laser on the frame when you do it to keep it all aligned properly.
7. Leave to cure and open up!

You should be able to eliminate all the play so the surfaces seat real snug against each other.

Yes......it's a bodge, but a high class bodge I would say :-)
I certainly wouldn't hesitate if it were my bike and was getting those kind of issues.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 28 December 2024 at 6:18pm
I got the hinge pivot pin replaced with an oversized pin and the hinge bored out for tight clearance. The hinge works nicely now with no detectable play.

The next improvement to replace the Sturmey 3x9 hybrid hub gear with a triple crank and a standard hub with an 11-28t or 11-32t 9sp cassette. The Young Lady doesn’t get on with the hub gear’s twist grip and she dislikes the hub gear’s weight and drag. I will replace the Sunrace R90 rear derailleur with a Shimano Altus for its high capacity but short cage. It works fine on a 9sp 9-28t cassette on her Micro.

What is a recommended front derailleur for 58/44/30t chainrings?


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 04 January 2025 at 6:20pm
I will try an old 7sp Deore LX front mech that predates the Microdrive era, pinched from my Frezoni road bike. Hopefully it can cope with the big ring without grinding the outer cage for clearance.

Another question. The GT3 came with a proprietary rear rack but missing the proprietary bolt-on bracket that would allow a 2-bolt dyno taillight to be fitted to the normal flat plate.

I could bodge something but is the correct piece available as a spare part? I’ve not seen it advertised anywhere.


Posted By: NigelSlee
Date Posted: 22 March 2025 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by LWaB LWaB wrote:

I have ordered some PTFE tubing from China, 15mm OD and 13mm ID. These dimensions seem to match the chain tubing supplied by Ginkgo. We will see how it works.

I have a couple of bikes needing new chain tubing so interested in your findings with the PTFE tube from China.

To all: any other suggestions?


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 23 September 2025 at 1:04pm
Much-delayed response:
The eBay chain tubing arrived fairly tightly coiled, requiring some time and application of a heat gun to straighten it enough for use. If I had my time over, I’d order another metre more than what I calculated. The PTFE chain tubes are a touch shorter than is ideal but quite a bit cheaper than PTFE chain tubing ordered from specialists. The cheapest option is PVC of course but PTFE supposedly reduces chain friction at a nominal environmental cost.


Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 23 September 2025 at 1:12pm
The GT3 refurb continues.

The old MTB front mech shifts fine up to the 58t chainring but we might have to increase that to something bigger as she is now overrunning the 58x11t top gear too often.

She is looking for the old style GT3 headrest that plugs into bith side tubes of the seatframe as the horizontal bar provides good mounting points for a bag and rear lights. The only available Greenspeed headrests rely on a single central support which provides none of those mounting points. The headrest is shown in  http://www.wrhpv.com/greenspeed/gt3/pic/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.wrhpv.com/greenspeed/gt3/pic/index.html  Any ideas where to find one?

Also, I am working in Oz for a couple of weeks and have some room in my baggage. Let me know if you want some difficult-to-find tyres or recumbent spares ferried to Auld Blighty.



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