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Sports and Street Rule Clarification |
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Paul Goodwin
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Joined: 26 March 2010 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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Topic: Sports and Street Rule ClarificationPosted: 02 August 2011 at 9:59am |
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A pretty valid concern has been bought up about the eligability of certain machines to race in street and sports classes, in my case whether a Raptobike is suitable.
I have no real disagreement about the fact that a Rapto and similar bikes can be seen as a touch too low for entry into such a class. The problem is that there is no minimum seat height ruling, indeed the regulations state that entry is at the rider's discretion. Unfortunately this creates a situation where it becomes a subjective opinion rather than objective fact. My proposal is to reintroduce a minimum seat height for the street / sports classes as of the beginning of next season to in order to prevent similar concerns. I feel however that eligability should be frozen for this year, if a competitor has raced in a class with a machine that remains identical throughout the season, then they should continue to be allowed in the same classes. I'm not a particular fan of mid-season rule changes. |
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AlanGoodman
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Club Chairman Joined: 04 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8036 |
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 10:01am |
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There has been a lot of discussion of Sports Class Rules in the past, and they usually end up adding confusion rather than reducing it!
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Adrian Setter
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Joined: 04 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1606 |
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 10:24am |
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When it just too late to liven-up the AGM agenda with the customary annual discussion on the subject, too...
I'll be back later with some comment, at a time when the evil squirrels aren't expecting me to be labouring in the nut mines.
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Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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AlanGoodman
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 10:32am |
I'm gutted about that as well... If this had come up two days ago we wouldn't have had time for any racing at Hillingdon...
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Adrian Setter
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Joined: 04 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1606 |
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 1:26pm |
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The history of the Sports class is a tad murky, if not particularly long, being clouded by seemingly endless discussions, multiple proposals for rules and adoption at different times of different definitions - but, to make it even more fun, not all documented in one place. There's probably a book in it, if any professional historians are reading. But not, I imagine, a best-seller.
The original class definition was based on an eye-line height of 105cm, with an express intention of encouraging Kingcycles out of sheds and onto the race track. The KC had not long gone out of production, and there might also have been a motive to encourage the sales of the most obvious replacement at the time, the Burrows Ratcatcher. Still - if I recall correctly - Mike did provide prizes for a couple of years.
No sooner was the ink dry on that rule than it was subverted by certain tall riders (Mr Larrington and me), who took bikes rather lower than the intended ones, sat the seats upright, screwed the suspension to maximum pre-load and thereby scraped inside the eye-line rule.
Sports class having been won by me, on a Hurricane, Alan and Dave Goodman - who I shall describe as being closer to Mark Cavendish's height than I am - quite reasonably expected to ride their Hurricanes as Sports, too. At this point I lose the plot slightly, but the eye-line rule was dead and I think it was then that a seat-height rule came in. I don't remember what the measurement was though, and I think you'd have to trawl old magazines to find out. When I became CompSec, I didn't even remember that rule existed, which contributed to me inadvertently causing the first upset of my tenure.
I'm sure a Raptobike would never have met the eye-line rule, not even with a McDee or a Dutchman on board. Similarly, I'm all but certain it wouldn't have passed the seat height rule. On the other hand, there are those on the Continent proclaiming that "high-racers [large-wheeled, high-seated, extremely recumbent machines] are the new low-racers". If they're right (personally, I don't think they are) we might expect an influx of such machines. They would pass both versions of the height test, but are they practical road-going machines? The precedent there is that McDee decided he wouldn't enter his M5 high-racer as Sports.
The spirit that I have tried to encourage for the class is that it is principally for fun (hey, isn't that what our racing is for?), providing a feeling of competition for riders of bikes that simply can't win against the out-and-out race bikes. That seems to have worked pretty well for the last two and a bit seasons.
After all that ramble, we have two questions:
Edited by Adrian Setter - 02 August 2011 at 1:30pm |
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Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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AlanGoodman
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Club Chairman Joined: 04 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8036 |
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 1:39pm |
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Nicely summed up Adrian... The minimum seat height was set at 350mm for the 2006 race season...
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ND4E
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Joined: 19 June 2008 Location: Harrow Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:48pm |
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I agree with a minimum seat height for next season. But personally I think it should be low enough to include the Rapto as this is a very popular and great value for money current production bike and I'm sure there must be many more like Paul that use it as a daily bike. The old height rule was based on Kingcycle seat which was a popular production model at that time.
This clarification could encourage other Rapto owners to have a go at racing or non owners to take the plunge (cheques payable to ND4E Mr.Rapto)
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ND4E
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AlanGoodman
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:55pm |
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The 350mm seat height wasn't based on the Kingcycle... It was actually designed to include bikes such as the Challenge Hurricane (fairly practical bike which by pure coincidence was ridden by the person who proposed that height... Reducing it below that would allow a lot of the out and out race bikes and in my opinion would probably defeat the object of Sports Class...
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ND4E
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Joined: 19 June 2008 Location: Harrow Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:05pm |
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Most of the low racing bikes are a little lower than the Rapto so if you made the Rapto the minimum and measured to the mm I think it would encourage new entry into the sport and reflect the gradual lowering of seat heights. Appart from the high racers of course!
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ND4E
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AlanGoodman
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Posted: 02 August 2011 at 4:17pm |
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According to their web sites...
A Rapto seat is 270mm high
A Challenge Hurricane seat is 400mm high...
A Challenge Fujin SL seat is 330mm...
An Optima Baron is 340mm...
I really wouldn't want to reduce the minimum seat height to 270mm... Assuming a minimum seat height is reinstated...
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