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Lancaster results
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Yanto View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 July 2005
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Points: 1521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yanto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2012 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Andrew S Andrew S wrote:

Originally posted by Yanto Yanto wrote:

My time should be 33min 32 sec, not 34min 32 sec, Eddie, Mike and Miles were behind me. (edited as i've just watched video again, i did 20 laps in 33:32)
I've now taken everyone's finish times from the trackside video and your time should be 33:36.31, not 34:32.26 as originally posted. The trackside video time is calibrated against the 11 tags which were working in that race, so is measured from when the first person crossed the line at the start. This may account for the discrepancy of 4.31s compared to your video.

My apologies for this error which was probably due to a typo in the sheet of finish times I got from Jon and Anne.
 
Thank you for the effort required to rectify;  my concern was about the number of points which would have/will be awarded, i need every single one i'm entitled to!
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KevinJ View Drop Down
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Points: 1079 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KevinJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2012 at 10:22pm
Well Done Andrew Clap  
Kevin Jenkins

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Adrian Setter View Drop Down
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Points: 1606 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adrian Setter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Andrew S Andrew S wrote:

As Kevin says, this looks like a classic split-by-the-winner case:
  • Ian crosses the line on 19 laps, ahead of Eddie (and Slash)
  • 32:08 - Slash crosses the line to win
  • 32:33 - Eddie crosses the line to finish on 19 laps (1:42.8/lap)
  • 34:32 - Ian goes on to complete 20 laps (1:43.1/lap)
Ian's average speed is less then Eddie's, so Eddie comes out ahead.
 
I'm hopeful that subsequent corrections to Ian's time have fixed this anomaly already but, for the record, I don't agree that the circumstance above means Eddie is the winner.  Yes, the software does work that way - and needs to to cope with our practice of splitting races into heats - but it would be perverse to deem someone who was behind someone else in the same race the winner.  Within a race, more laps trumps average speed.  On the rare occasions the anomaly has occurred (I can only call to mind one previous one) we've fooled the software into assigning the right ranking by adjusting the time of the rider who did more laps downwards by a few seconds.


Edited by Adrian Setter - 06 August 2012 at 1:03pm
Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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Andrew S View Drop Down
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Points: 2433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 1:23pm
This can (only?) occur when the winner splits two closely-matched riders on the line, then the rider in front slows down enough on the extra lap to bring their average speed down below that of the rider behind. I too can only remember this happening once before so probably isn't worth a special rule.
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KevinJ View Drop Down
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Points: 1079 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KevinJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Adrian Adrian wrote:

I'm hopeful that subsequent corrections to Ian's time have fixed this anomaly already but, for the record, I don't agree that the circumstance above means Eddie is the winner.  Yes, the software does work that way - and needs to to cope with our practice of splitting races into heats - but it would be perverse to deem someone who was behind someone else in the same race the winner.  Within a race, more laps trumps average speed.  On the rare occasions the anomaly has occurred (I can only call to mind one previous one) we've fooled the software into assigning the right ranking by adjusting the time of the rider who did more laps downwards by a few seconds.
 Yes - it is not so much the software but the fact that to add up the effective heats (which may themselves be different times, average speed must be used (you cannot use distance for that, since we don't do a set number of laps).  So we could fiddle it outside- but difficult to see that the software would ever be able to cope with that scenario.  Would become even more of a nightmare if this was close to someone's average speed in the next race (shouldn't be relevant to this one but...)   I seem to remember the last time it occurred we didn't correct it either -  believe that was Rob Hague at that time - or my memory is going - which is probably more likely.
Kevin Jenkins

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Adrian Setter View Drop Down
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Points: 1606 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adrian Setter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 2:56pm
It happened a few years ago (2007 or 2008?) at Preston.  My recollection is that NeilF (at that time in the machine we now know as Yello Donkey) lapped me just before his finish, but not Simon Sanderson.  We had to shave a couple of seconds off Simon's time to give him a win over me.
Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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Yowie View Drop Down
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Points: 940 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yowie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2012 at 12:17am
Photos:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.331990843559227.76505.100002449429968&type=1&l=9e49553b11

High res available @10MB each.


Edited by Yowie - 08 August 2012 at 12:17am
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Andrew S View Drop Down
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Points: 2433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2012 at 2:06pm
The final Lancaster results and current Championship Table are now available on the website.

Thanks to Kevin for posting up.
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SteveArmstrong View Drop Down
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Points: 160 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveArmstrong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2012 at 11:32pm
I seem to have slipped down the Lancaster results table a bit in round 1 race 2. My average now reads 9.5 mph. After Stourport this will arguably put me in first place for this years 'showed most improvement' award, but I should probably own up and mention that the preliminary results had me down as 17.7 mph, which was in the ball park of my speedo.

Best, Steve
When you pull the cats tail, you get the whole cat.
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Andrew S View Drop Down
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Points: 2433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2012 at 9:55am
Steve - you're quite right, you should have had 13 laps in the first race. The fixed results should be posted on the website sometime soon.

Your tag was up and down like something that goes up and down a lot, so your laps come from Katie's tally sheet, not the tag. However the tag did manage to record your finish time, so it didn't stand out as an obvious failure when the results were recalculated and re-entered to add them to the Preston results (to get the Championship Table).

Incidentally, this recalculation is the reason why some finish times are different by a few seconds from those posted earlier on the forum, though not enough to change any positions. We found that not all the tags were synchronised together, so weren't all telling the same time. Kevin's tag-processing software now takes this into account so the new times are the right ones.
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